Synthetic? Blackstone Labs

[robin2660]

I'm thinking of getting this done as I'm due for an oil change.

I always want to take the best care of my car, so the synthetic/dino question is in my mind. While looking at the Blackstone site, I read this in the FAQ:

"Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?

Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us."

So, they figure dino works just fine. Why should I pay more for synthetic if the oil analysis guys see no benefit?

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq_gas.html

 

[coololddude]

maybe they dont own turbos (or superchargers)

 

[neox.286]

^^^
seriously lol

any company who uses the phrase "well, it has worked so far!" should not be considered a factual source

and honestly, the cost between synthetic and regular oil is not that much more, and oil changes dont come by that often...why cheap out on regular oil to save 15 bux (MAX) now and have to pay over a grand later to replace the turbo after the bearings wear out from too much friction?

 

[BOOSTR]

Maybe their also a bunch of cheap ass scientist that cannot afford synthetic oil or other such things that they would consider luxuries, when there are products that work "just as well".

 

[imac]

most synthetics are rated to last longer between oil changes, so as long as you're past the break-in period, you should be able to go like 5000 miles instead of the conventional go-to of 3000.

 

[MikeHTally]

I suspect the only real advantage of synthetic is the better heat tolerance. Oil gets dirty at the same rate. Apparently, some fuel-dilution occurs as well?

 

[///M Compact]

I run Mobil 1 5W-30 and change it at @5000 mile intervals. Based on the used oil analysis I've had Blackstone perform the oil can be run out to at least 6500 miles- but I'm sticking with 5000 mile intervals.

 

[robin2660]

I suspect the only real advantage of synthetic is the better heat tolerance. Oil gets dirty at the same rate. Apparently, some fuel-dilution occurs as well?

Oh, yes, the fuel smell from my oil is quite strong.

My kit has been ordered. I can't wait to see the results.

 

[Betelgeuse]

They're absolutely right IMO, synthetic guarantees nothing. And really, who would know better than the people who actually see what's in the oil? We can speculate all day, unless you actually do a test (uoa) to know how well an oil is doing in a particular application, it's all hot air.

However, synthetic is designed to handle heat better and does resist coking better. But none of that is a guarantee of long life nor does it mean your motor is automatically going to be more protected than using regular dino on a short interval. Some people, thinking they're protected because the oil is synthetic, stretch their intervals ignorant of the fact that the oil viscosity is below average.

IMO, if you change out every 3k and don't race on a course or track often, there's no point in using synthetic.

Also with the new water cooled turbos I doubt coking is much of an issue unless the car is being run hard on a regular basis and not idled. Just my opinion.

I've used strickly dino for the last 37k miles and all UOAs have been good. I run my car hard and have no drop in mileage, idle or smoking problems. I change out every 3k religiously though.

 

[neox.286]

they never said that synthetic was or was not needed, they simply said 'regular oils have worked for us so far'....its not a matter of what they can see in the oil, it is a matter of coking and buildup through the very thin oil lines used on turbo applications that they dont see

in the end it is up to you, but personally Ill keep forking out my couple of bucks extra for a oil I feel much more comfortable with

 

[CamelFilters]

I'm glad to know i'm not the only one using dino oil in my speed3. I do change every 3000KM though, that's less than 2000mi. I dont race my car in a track, but i do drive spirittedly here and there. I use Castrol GTX 5W30 and the smell of gasoline in my oil is apparent. my car has 40,000km and so far it runs flawlessly.

 

[neox.286]

....other than the gasoline in your oil (not saying that its due to not using synthetic, just pointing that out)

 

[///M Compact]

All three of my UOAs have showed less than 0.5% fuel dilution- and just prior to taking my latest sample I spent three days at Putnam Road Course, where @1.5 hours per day were spent lapping the 1.766 mile track. Engine speed remained between 3000-6000 rpm throughout each 30 minute session, and ambient temps ranged from 70F-90F.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

They're absolutely right IMO, synthetic guarantees nothing. And really, who would know better than the people who actually see what's in the oil? We can speculate all day, unless you actually do a test (uoa) to know how well an oil is doing in a particular application, it's all hot air.

However, synthetic is designed to handle heat better and does resist coking better. But none of that is a guarantee of long life nor does it mean your motor is automatically going to be more protected than using regular dino on a short interval. Some people, thinking they're protected because the oil is synthetic, stretch their intervals ignorant of the fact that the oil viscosity is below average.

IMO, if you change out every 3k and don't race on a course or track often, there's no point in using synthetic.

Also with the new water cooled turbos I doubt coking is much of an issue unless the car is being run hard on a regular basis and not idled. Just my opinion.

I've used strickly dino for the last 37k miles and all UOAs have been good. I run my car hard and have no drop in mileage, idle or smoking problems. I change out every 3k religiously though.

Noone said synthetics "guaranteed" anything. I've never seen any type of guarantees on any bottle of synthetic I've bought in the past 13 years I've been using them. Just like any mechanical device, there are going to be failures and premature wear with abuse/misuse and crappy maintenance habits. You said it yourself. Synthetics resists heat and coking better, which means they're less susceptible to thermal breakdown, which can allow longer drain intervals. This country has been corrupted with the 3k mile oil change falicy that the "Jiffy Lube" places have engrained into people's minds who think they're doing their car a favor by changing the oil more often. Changing every 3k makes these people money. My dealer gave me free oil changes for as long as I own the car. Guess what. They'll only change it every 7.5 miles with DINO (what the manual says for normal driving). They most likely would be recommending I change it every 3k "just to be safe" if I were actually paying for it. I change the oil myself anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Most people change their oil at 3k because it makes them feel better. Not because they've got any scientific evidence that it should be changed that often. I'll be changing my synthetic at 6k in this car because it makes me feel better and I honestly believe it has even more life in it at that point, especially since I drive 60 miles a day on the highway at 65-70mph with very little stop and go. My last car, an RSX Type S, called for oil changes at 10k miles under normal driving. I used to change it at 7.5k. If manufacturers thought the oil should be changed at 3k, they'd recommend it. Afterall, they're the ones footing the bill when your motor grenades inside the warranty coverage because you followed the owners manual oil change schedule. Blackstone says synthetics don't guarantee anything, but they also don't recommend changing the oil every 3k miles either.

Welcome to the never ending oil debate. Everyone's got an opinion. You could bring this subject up to 10 different people and get 10 different answers and everyone single one of them will have a legitimate reason about why they change their oil with brand XYZ dino/synthetic at xxxx miles because...... and the odds are pretty darn good that each and every one of these peoples' motors will go 100k+ miles and beyond their ownership without an oil related failure.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

All three of my UOAs have showed less than 0.5% fuel dilution- and just prior to taking my latest sample I spent three days at Putnam Road Course, where @1.5 hours per day were spent lapping the 1.766 mile track. Engine speed remained between 3000-6000 rpm throughout each 30 minute session, and ambient temps ranged from 70F-90F.

Yes, that was another thing I was going to mention, but forgot in my last post. There are so many claims in this forum about this "fuel dilution" problem. People talk about it like it's commonplace when in fact I have seen absolutely no, none, zip, zilch, not even 1 UOA from the MS3 that shows this is even a problem. I've read the theory on why a DISI motor is more susceptible to this problem and sure, it sounds like a great theory, but I have not seen it in any of the posted UOA's. So, does it exist? Is this why oils have been thinning or is it because of the extreme heat from the turbo and the use of a fuel/emissions efficient 5W-30 weight oil that Mazda recommends for this motor. My next oil change will be with 5W-40 Shell Rotella T synthetic.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Noone said synthetics "guaranteed" anything. I've never seen any type of guarantees on any bottle of synthetic I've bought in the past 13 years I've been using them. Just like any mechanical device, there are going to be failures and premature wear with abuse/misuse and crappy maintenance habits. You said it yourself. Synthetics resists heat and coking better, which means they're less susceptible to thermal breakdown, which can allow longer drain intervals. This country has been corrupted with the 3k mile oil change falicy that the "Jiffy Lube" places have engrained into people's minds who think they're doing their car a favor by changing the oil more often. Changing every 3k makes these people money. My dealer gave me free oil changes for as long as I own the car. Guess what. They'll only change it every 7.5 miles with DINO (what the manual says for normal driving). They most likely would be recommending I change it every 3k "just to be safe" if I were actually paying for it. I change the oil myself anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Most people change their oil at 3k because it makes them feel better. Not because they've got any scientific evidence that it should be changed that often. I'll be changing my synthetic at 6k in this car because it makes me feel better and I honestly believe it has even more life in it at that point, especially since I drive 60 miles a day on the highway at 65-70mph with very little stop and go. My last car, an RSX Type S, called for oil changes at 10k miles under normal driving. I used to change it at 7.5k. If manufacturers thought the oil should be changed at 3k, they'd recommend it. Afterall, they're the ones footing the bill when your motor grenades inside the warranty coverage because you followed the owners manual oil change schedule. Blackstone says synthetics don't guarantee anything, but they also don't recommend changing the oil every 3k miles either.

Welcome to the never ending oil debate. Everyone's got an opinion. You could bring this subject up to 10 different people and get 10 different answers and everyone single one of them will have a legitimate reason about why they change their oil with brand XYZ dino/synthetic at xxxx miles because...... and the odds are pretty darn good that each and every one of these peoples' motors will go 100k+ miles and beyond their ownership without an oil related failure.

My 3k interval has nothing to do with Jiffy lube. I wouldn't take a bicycle there nor trust anything they have to say. I determined my interval based on the UOAs I've done. Plus the dino I use cost less than half the price of synthetic.

I have no problems with frequent intervals and would encourage anyone to do the same. IMO, it's always better to change it sooner than later. The manufacturer's schedule is a very rough one, and is based on certain factors which may or may not apply completely to someone because of their driving style or environment. Some people can probably go longer but for many others (including myself) the driving conditions are pretty severe and should require a shorter interval. Again, just my opinion. Like you said, everyone has their own take on the oil debate.

 

[amascio]

I use Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in my speed mostly because it meets the Honda/Acura HTO-06 tests.

I have a lot of respect for Honda engineering and when they develop an oil spec to go with a turbo engine they just deveoped, it says a lot about them planning to have the engine last a long time with no problems.

I don't know what the parameters of the HTO-06 spec are exactly, but I do know that only a handful of oils meet it.

Plus Penn Plat is actually pretty cheap compared to some oils you see on the shelves. I change the oil every 4000 to 4500 miles because the heat here in Texas - A/C runs 24/7.

Should be able to get 150k miles out of the engine ( at least I hope so).

Cheers!

 

[CWPspeed3]

I use Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in my speed mostly because it meets the Honda/Acura HTO-06 tests.

I have a lot of respect for Honda engineering and when they develop an oil spec to go with a turbo engine they just deveoped, it says a lot about them planning to have the engine last a long time with no problems.

I don't know what the parameters of the HTO-06 spec are exactly, but I do know that only a handful of oils meet it.

Plus Penn Plat is actually pretty cheap compared to some oils you see on the shelves. I change the oil every 4000 to 4500 miles because the heat here in Texas - A/C runs 24/7.

Should be able to get 150k miles out of the engine ( at least I hope so).

Cheers!

I agree, thats my reasoning as well.