Does anybody have a good writeup on when the AWD system kicks in to send up to 50 percent of available torque to the rear wheels? What conditions exactly cause the system to kick in and what causes it to reset? Looking for a detailed explanation on the three different modes as well. I understand it's computer controlled but what is the algorithm that causes it to engage/disengage? Thanks...
Speed 6 AWD system
- Thread starter pmh67
- Start date
So no SLIP no AWD only FWD??? I would think Mazda would make the system more sophisticated than that...What about in a tight turn the wheel speeds on opposing sides would be at different speeds so does AWD kick in then even when there is no slip???
Yeah it's all variable, not some dummy system that reverts power only when slip is detected. It takes in Yaw, wheel angle, engine status, etc.. to determine the split, normal mode is Nearly all up front, Snow is a 50/50 split and Sport is a variable.
So if you floor it, you can best believe you're in AWD/Sport mode.
mrlilguy157
Member
- :
- 07 mazdaspeed 3
Even at part throttle, the AWD would kick in on a dyno ... Because the front wheels would be moving, and the back ones not, and the individual wheel sensors would detect this, and cause the AWD to kick in.
The question isnt whether or not they all spin, but at what percentage is the torque being applied to the rear.
What a great link! Thank you! It will save me countless hours searching through forums!
No doubt this system is far less sophisticated then Subaru, being a former STI owner. Not even comparable, but it gets the job done in bad weather equally. The power to the rear, is very minimal at best unless you are slipping. The difference I see between this and Subaru is that when I take off, only the fronts chirp just as is the car were FWD. The Subaru never did that, because it's a true system.
I've owned many cars, and this in reality is more like a FWD car, but it's better then no AWD at all, and the price you pay for this car, you can't ask for any better. LOVE IT!!!!!
I've owned many cars, and this in reality is more like a FWD car, but it's better then no AWD at all, and the price you pay for this car, you can't ask for any better. LOVE IT!!!!!
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no doubt this system is far less sophisticated then Subaru, being a former STI owner. Not even comparable, but it gets the job done in bad weather equally. The reality is, this car feels more like a FWD car, because the power to the rear, is very minimal at best unless you are slipping. I've owned many cars, and this in reality is more like a FWD car. It's not true AWD by any means, but it really doesn't need to be, and the rears have kicked in in the snow very very nicely!!!!
It is full-time AWD, and has a RWD bias, if you didn't check that PDF, do so.
It's a very sophisticated system, it has multiple sensors around the car to know where to send power, even looking at some of the MS6 snow videos you can see the MS6 oversteering like a mofo, with DSC off.
Indeed, but it's not a TRUE AWD. Trust me on this buddy, it CANNOT match the AWD system of Subaru. No need to defend the car. I love it more then my Subaru, and I'm happy with it. I've tested this car out in the snow, and the rears do kick in, but this car feels more like a FWD car for the most part, and most of the power is to the front, not 50-50 dead on like Subaru.
fastdreams
Member
- :
- 2008 MS3
That is a great pdf.
I find this curious however:
"Front/rear wheel torque varies between 100/0 and 50/50 through an electronic
torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential
100/0 is only used when the hand brake is applied or at low speeds during
tight turns (parking lot maneuvers)
Many AWD systems in FWD cars require front wheel slip (viscous couplings)
before power is transferred to the rear, MAZDASPEED6 has a strong rear
wheel bias in most driving conditions
Almost constant torque to the rear requires a water cooled transfer unit"
Huh? That does not compute. 50/50 is not a strong rear bias. I think we may be taking it out of context or misunderstand what they mean. I think they simply mean that once getting above very slow speeds, the controller is always sending torque to the rear (whereas a FWD bias awd car like the Audi TT or VW R32 would not be), but only up to 50%.
Anyway...very cool car the MS6. I wanted to want one when I was shopping but I found the MS3 to suit my needs better.
One thing that threw me on the MS6 was discussion of the odd behavior of the AWD system on the track, which I plan to be on much of the year. FWD limitations I can handle, but mid-corner dynamic changes in the car - I can't. That kind of thing will put you and your car in the dirt, or worse.
Any MS6 drivers track their car and notice this? Was it just some mag testers smoking crack? My AWD experience is with torsen quattro in Audi's (not the TT - it is haldex FWD bias) which is always 50/50. The newest sporty Audi's is actually 40/60 (they finally listened to enthusiasts!). Also had a '02 WRX with mods. The AWD systems in both behaved the same always and as such were very predictable and easy/fun to drive hard.
Sorry for the book. I think, type, and read fast.
Really loving these Mazdaspeed products, this little 3 is great at the track. I'm missing AWD on the streets though!
I find this curious however:
"Front/rear wheel torque varies between 100/0 and 50/50 through an electronic
torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential
100/0 is only used when the hand brake is applied or at low speeds during
tight turns (parking lot maneuvers)
Many AWD systems in FWD cars require front wheel slip (viscous couplings)
before power is transferred to the rear, MAZDASPEED6 has a strong rear
wheel bias in most driving conditions
Almost constant torque to the rear requires a water cooled transfer unit"
Huh? That does not compute. 50/50 is not a strong rear bias. I think we may be taking it out of context or misunderstand what they mean. I think they simply mean that once getting above very slow speeds, the controller is always sending torque to the rear (whereas a FWD bias awd car like the Audi TT or VW R32 would not be), but only up to 50%.
Anyway...very cool car the MS6. I wanted to want one when I was shopping but I found the MS3 to suit my needs better.
One thing that threw me on the MS6 was discussion of the odd behavior of the AWD system on the track, which I plan to be on much of the year. FWD limitations I can handle, but mid-corner dynamic changes in the car - I can't. That kind of thing will put you and your car in the dirt, or worse.
Any MS6 drivers track their car and notice this? Was it just some mag testers smoking crack? My AWD experience is with torsen quattro in Audi's (not the TT - it is haldex FWD bias) which is always 50/50. The newest sporty Audi's is actually 40/60 (they finally listened to enthusiasts!). Also had a '02 WRX with mods. The AWD systems in both behaved the same always and as such were very predictable and easy/fun to drive hard.
Sorry for the book. I think, type, and read fast.
Really loving these Mazdaspeed products, this little 3 is great at the track. I'm missing AWD on the streets though!
mrlilguy157
Member
- :
- 07 mazdaspeed 3
no problem guys... i found that pdf and posted the link. it has been on the boards since august
Wintermute
Member
Well I've never driven a Subaru so I can't give a comparison, but I can vouch for the prowess of the MS6 AWD system in heavy snow and ice.
This weekend the soon-to-be wife and I decided to take a little ski trip up to Sunrise in the White Mountains of Arizona. Not the most glamorous destination, but it's only 200 miles from Phoenix and is larger and less crowded than the other option of Snowbowl (in Flagstaff). Anyway, first day was great but on day 2 a big winter storm moved in about 6 hours earlier than expected. Heavy snow and high winds. Serious blizzard conditions. At our elevation, they were expecting about 6-12" that afternoon, up to 3 feet at the summit. And for reasons that I simply cannot fathom, the Sunrise lodge has absolutely no way to get weather reports. The rooms do not get the Weather Channel. There is no Internet access. Even the front desk doesn't have the Internet. And the people who work there had no clue.
So we decided to drive the 3 miles up to the base of the ski area just to see how the conditions were (and to get on the damn Internet since the ski area has free Wi-Fi, but their own hotel does not, and my cell phone did not get service). Well they got worse. There was probably 4-6" of snow on the road with more coming, plus the wind was blowing so much snow across the road that there were times where visibility was 0. And ice, lots of ice. Boy was I glad I swapped the stock tires for some all-seasons. We might still be there if I had summer tires on my car. But the AWD performed wonderfully. I could feel it transfering power to different wheels as we hit ice or deep snow and some tires started to spin. But I never for a second felt out of control or that we were in danger of getting stuck. Except for the brief bouts of total whiteout or near solid ice, I maintained a comfortable speed of 35mph with total control, even up or downhill. Sure it was slippery and I could feel the car slide around a bit when we hit some ice, but the AWD always kicked in and with a little nudge on the throttle we were back on track.
Well when we realized that this storm was not going away and conditions would be miserable on the slopes, we turned around and headed back. A good 5 miles of unplowed snow and ice later (with some very scary moments where the road, other cars, trees, EVERYTHING disappeared in a mass of pure white), we hit more civilized roads and started making much better time. Later on I heard that they were getting wind gusts up to 30mph and wind is probably the 1 element that will keep me off my skis.
From now on, this will be our skiing/bad weather car. I've only felt safer in my parents' Tahoe, and that is really because of ground clearance. With some winter tires this car would be nearly unstoppable. Oh and the heated seats and mirrors worked wonders, and I will never buy another car without HIDs again. Those things cut through the snow like lasers.
This weekend the soon-to-be wife and I decided to take a little ski trip up to Sunrise in the White Mountains of Arizona. Not the most glamorous destination, but it's only 200 miles from Phoenix and is larger and less crowded than the other option of Snowbowl (in Flagstaff). Anyway, first day was great but on day 2 a big winter storm moved in about 6 hours earlier than expected. Heavy snow and high winds. Serious blizzard conditions. At our elevation, they were expecting about 6-12" that afternoon, up to 3 feet at the summit. And for reasons that I simply cannot fathom, the Sunrise lodge has absolutely no way to get weather reports. The rooms do not get the Weather Channel. There is no Internet access. Even the front desk doesn't have the Internet. And the people who work there had no clue.
So we decided to drive the 3 miles up to the base of the ski area just to see how the conditions were (and to get on the damn Internet since the ski area has free Wi-Fi, but their own hotel does not, and my cell phone did not get service). Well they got worse. There was probably 4-6" of snow on the road with more coming, plus the wind was blowing so much snow across the road that there were times where visibility was 0. And ice, lots of ice. Boy was I glad I swapped the stock tires for some all-seasons. We might still be there if I had summer tires on my car. But the AWD performed wonderfully. I could feel it transfering power to different wheels as we hit ice or deep snow and some tires started to spin. But I never for a second felt out of control or that we were in danger of getting stuck. Except for the brief bouts of total whiteout or near solid ice, I maintained a comfortable speed of 35mph with total control, even up or downhill. Sure it was slippery and I could feel the car slide around a bit when we hit some ice, but the AWD always kicked in and with a little nudge on the throttle we were back on track.
Well when we realized that this storm was not going away and conditions would be miserable on the slopes, we turned around and headed back. A good 5 miles of unplowed snow and ice later (with some very scary moments where the road, other cars, trees, EVERYTHING disappeared in a mass of pure white), we hit more civilized roads and started making much better time. Later on I heard that they were getting wind gusts up to 30mph and wind is probably the 1 element that will keep me off my skis.
From now on, this will be our skiing/bad weather car. I've only felt safer in my parents' Tahoe, and that is really because of ground clearance. With some winter tires this car would be nearly unstoppable. Oh and the heated seats and mirrors worked wonders, and I will never buy another car without HIDs again. Those things cut through the snow like lasers.
do you have a link? I dont know of cars that can do more then 50% to the rear. I heard the Skyline GTR can, key word being "heard" ive never driven one so i cant confirm this. I thought the layout of a awd setup prevented more then 50% going to the rear wheels. Pretty sure even the new sti can only do 50/50 max.
BlackCherry06
Member
- :
- '17 CX-3 GT
Cars like the 911 Turbo and GT-R have a rear-wheel biased system, where the rears always receive more than the fronts. 50/50 is not the limit...it's just the limit Mazda imposed for this car.
The new subies allow you to change the bias on the fly, and even the diff settings. It actually looks pretty cool. You can also set the sensetivity of the stability control (woohoo!).
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