Toolfreak387
Member
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- 2002 P5
you mean freedom is slavery? (1981)
Slavery is Freedom
- Thread starter pingdum
- Start date
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
GrandBelialKey said:
Minivan is a moron. He didn't 'one-up' anyone, he just made a fool of himself.
Testifying before a committee describing the horrors that occured in Vietnam is hardly 'bragging about war crimes'. He was trying to put an end to it.
oh, if you could only take your own advice...MinivanHunter said:
you see the constitutionality of breaking FISA and trouncing the Constitutional rights of American citizens?
let's go back to when Lincoln, in the middle of a real war (reflection of the "war on terror" not the War in Iraq), suspended the rights of Americans with a declaration of habeas corpus. when reviewed by the SC, he was rebuked and it was declared unconstitutional...
the President is allowed a broad spectrum of powers to protect national interests and the Constitutional rights of Americans during wartime but one of them is not the burning of the Constution nor trouncing the rights it gives to US citizens.
don't run your mouth either MV (boom07)
SilverBulletES
Member
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- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
that article is actually putting forth the assertion that Iraq will lead the ME into reform. it says that its one of the strongest arguments that the admin made the right choice...SilverBulletES said:
I guess that's what happens when you go into writing an article with the pre-conceived notion of how it ends... this same amount of reform could've been brought by putting troops on the borders of Libya or Syria. Iraq as this beacon of reform to me is ludicrous; I mean what are reformers in these countries supposed to think...
"Well I want to overthrow/reform my government so I guess here's my checklist:
1. Amass an army of 150k troops
2. Spend billions to equip, train and deploy them
3. Remove leaders from government with force instead of diplomacy
4. Disband the military that was only moderately loyal to the old leaders so they can terrorize the populace as unemployed mercenaries
5. Spend billions a week to occupy entire country (while not "occupying" because it has such a negative connotation)
6. Watch as thousands upon thousands of my countrymen die
7. Write a Constitution and hope it is accepted/followed
8. Close my eyes to the problems that surround the mission and be confident that the country will be fine while only having the faintest outline of how to get it there"
do we really think we can sell that to people and they'll swallow it (not to mention probably die for even attempting it)? maybe I'm just cynical but it doesn't really appear that this beacon of reform we've created is going to get reformers to line up to study at the school of US diplomacy/foreign policy...
i thought that article was pretty reasonable; it seems like it's calling a spade a spade. i don't think anyone can say with any certainty what the role of iraq is going to be in the future ME, or even if this whole thing is going to work.
regardless, the article has nothing to do with this thread's topic: the legality of unsupervised spying on americans.
i'm not worried about the administration spying on me; i'm no threat to them. what i worry about is that the plan was for this program to grow into spying on other government figures; people who could become a threat to the administration's power.
it's a slippery slope from spying on "suspected terrorists" to those officials involved with and in possession of intelligence info (maybe justified as "needed to protect the security of our intelligence"). and so what if a little bit of useful personal dirt is gathered up at the same time?
it's a big leap from the former to the latter, but it's easy to do it when you're crossing lots of smaller, less visible gaps (e.g., spying on groups like PETA).
regardless, the article has nothing to do with this thread's topic: the legality of unsupervised spying on americans.
i'm not worried about the administration spying on me; i'm no threat to them. what i worry about is that the plan was for this program to grow into spying on other government figures; people who could become a threat to the administration's power.
it's a slippery slope from spying on "suspected terrorists" to those officials involved with and in possession of intelligence info (maybe justified as "needed to protect the security of our intelligence"). and so what if a little bit of useful personal dirt is gathered up at the same time?
it's a big leap from the former to the latter, but it's easy to do it when you're crossing lots of smaller, less visible gaps (e.g., spying on groups like PETA).
Exactly, the way he let them and others walk all over him. He should have just stood up and said "Well at least I went to Vietnam. One day, two years or four months you can still come home dead. I don't recall too many coming home dead from the Alabama Air National Guard."dmitrik4 said:
And then it came when an interviewer asked him who was his favorite band and he was all...Uh.....The Rolling Stones...uh..um.......no...The Beatles.....etc......you could see the indecision in his eyes. I know the President doesn't make too many snap decisions, and it is better to take your time and think things out and be flexable, but he was just such a politician.
No administration is above using their power for political gain. The Clintons used the IRS, the FBI and just about every goverment body as their own personal "Career Progression" tool. It just so happens that the only time liberals seem to care about is when someone they hate is in power.pingdum said:
I will vote and I am conservative but all in all it's still a good old American ******!
I do agree with the snooping but the size of government, his oil buddies, and out of control spending (to name just a few) are really pissing me off.
No man nor government is perfect but I feel like we are slipping farther and farther into a non-represented socialist society. Hell, even Curious George won't say a damn word about illegals and allthough I do support the war on terror I am certainly ready to get my friends, and relatives out of Iraq.
Our freedoms have been slowly slipping away since they were first recognized by our founding fathers and this loss has accellerated since IMO about the 1920's or so with the institution of the FED and the 16th amendment.
What utter horse s*** "[size=+1]The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
Suck my balls WILSON you sorry dead prick!
Yes, I am a loony but a patriotic one
The American tax payer has become a nanny to every person in America everything is now a "right" regardless of who has to work to pay for it or who has to die to defend it.
I say stop letting the fuckers in and we won't need the snooping. Any illegal bastard from Sweden to Latin America, to Timbuck-*******-tu!
Ok rant off.
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SilverBulletES
Member
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- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
Ha. He said Jenjiss Khan... what an asshat.
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- 2006 Infiniti M
you know, i try to stay out of your threads but jeez dude...are you that naive? because someone is an american citizen doesnt make them automatically innocent. If to save truely innocent american lives you have to violate the civil liberties of people with connections to terrorists and/or illegal activities then by all means go for it. they lost the right to protection under the constitution and being a civilian of this country when the first began planning to usurp its government. if we all thought like you, and THANK GOD we do not, then this country would have fallen to external factors and internal factors generations ago, and we would probably speak german. STOP starting threads spouting things that actually make sense to people that understand that the world isn't tie died, and full of hippies
SilverBulletES
Member
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- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
Freedom is Slavery.
A HA!
Did you know the universe can fit into the tip of your fingernail?? (thumb)
A HA!
Did you know the universe can fit into the tip of your fingernail?? (thumb)
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
silver03p5 said:
Let me try to make this clear:
There are existing, legal channels available to eavesdrop on suspected terrorists.
The problem is that Bush authorized the ILLEGAL spying on American citizens. It doesn't matter if they are terrorists or not. Bush broke the laws of our country and should be held accountable for his actions.
Why undermine the existing system, which grants the authority to eavesdrop without a warrant for up to 72 hours (which is plenty of time for a judge to issue an emergency warrant)?
If people do not wake up and realize what is going on in this country, soon it will be too late, and many of the freedoms that so many Americans paid with their lives to protect will be gone.
Bush has violated the Constitution. How anyone can support a man who is undermining the very fabric of our nation is unfathomable.
