Should I? S2000 to MS3...

[psychophd]

Hi all,

First post, and of course, lotsa questions.

I currently drive an '04 S2000, and I love it. The 50/50 weight distribution, the handling, the gearbox. I'm not into flat out sprints, so it's quick enough too. Yes, it's loud, rattles, and has a trunk that is the size of my pants pocket, but it's a blast to drive.

However, I sold my daily driver ('92 Civic hatch), and now my wife and I are planning to have kids. So, sooner or later, the S has to go.

I've been looking at some options for a 5 door hatch, and it seems like the '07-09 MS3 seems like a good bet (STI is still having some teething issues and chews through gas; GTI and A3 may have questionable long term reliability as I plan to keep it forever, 3-series BMW wagon not my cup of tea).

With the changeover of MS3 model in 2010, I figure now might be a good time to get an '09. So, a few questions for you all... and please don't tell anyone on the s2ki.com boards that I'm cheating on them.

1. Does the mazda CAI really gain 24 hp? How hard is it to get?
2. Any suggestions for the shifter? I've heard it's not that great - does a short shift kit and/or anything else help?
3. Are all the engine mount issues dealt with?
4. I've read about smoking turbos... still an issue?

As I go look for new and almost new MS3s (I don't mind used - not abused - for the price savings), anything else I should know? I'm reluctant to give up my rwd, but I think this might be the right move, esp having a car that actually has a trunk.

I'm planning to test drive one this wkend (I'm in SoCal, near Disneyland). If anyone has suggestions for a dealership or has hookups, lemme know...

Thanks!


Mods, if I posted in the wrong forum please feel free to move...

 

[eg6motion]

1. Does the mazda CAI really gain 24 hp? How hard is it to get?
2. Any suggestions for the shifter? I've heard it's not that great - does a short shift kit and/or anything else help?
3. Are all the engine mount issues dealt with?
4. I've read about smoking turbos... still an issue?

1. Yes. Very easy, Dealer can order or you can purchase from online vendors
2. Lots of options, bushings, shifter weight mods, motor mount...all those help, but its not that bad.
3. Yes, while the stock mounts are squishy and cause wheel-hop, there has been hardly any reports of the 08+ models dropping engines since they fixed it.
4. Not very many smoking turbo's with stock cars... most people notice them after doing a downpipe or removing a cat.

 

[psychophd]

Thanks for the quick reply!

In re: to the motor mounts, if they're still a problem... what do people do? Replace with aftermarket (void warranty), or leave with OEM (under warranty, but might drop)?

Anything else I should know before I go for a test drive? Thanks again....

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

If you get an 09 the MM wont drop. that has been remedied. A lot of people are going with an aftermarket Rear MM just for more accurate shifts and a better feel all around. AWR makes theirs and they look like stock.

TWM short shifter and bushings will completely cure the shifter issue you were speaking of. Everyone that has them loves them and everyone swears that is how the car should have come.

 

[Hank3]

Instead of going with an aftermarket motor mount, members have gone with the Corksport inserts. Stiffens things up a little bit - not enough to make the Speed3 a rattlebox.

Funny that you mention coming from an S2K to the MS3. I'm still looking to get an S2K if I sell my MS3. Didn't need the five-door as much as I thought I did.

 

[coyfish]

Well seems like your looking for a fast car . The gas mileage in the speeds is "okay." If you love driving manuals and still wan't the "boy toy" with the convenience of 4 doors / lots of room than go for it. The mazdaspeed 3 / 6 tranny is one of the few lowpoints of the car. Its driveable but the gear ratios require LOTS of shifting in daily driving which might get annoying to some. Engine mounts help alleviate "drivetrain lash" this at the cost of some vibration at idle with A/C on.

As for your questions the stock mounts are fine for normal driving. Smoking turbo's happens with the older models (from what ive seen) once the downpipe has been replaced with an aftermarket pipe.

A shortshifter / bushings help the gearbox feel cleaner but its more of an engine mount/ clutch issue. I drive a speed 6 and I think its worse in my car than it is yours due to the AWD.

How much do you plan on modding this car ?? I was told at my old mazda dealer than in order to have a mazda CAI under warranty you have to have it installed by them. They charge like 150-200 bucks for a 20 minute job. Not to mention the mazdaspeed CAI is overpriced. My advice would be to buy / install your own. Save a lot of money and its a very basic install with clear instructions.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

You can argue the you install/they install of the MSCAI. I have buddys who have installed their own and have no issues at the dealership. Ask the dealership first to find out, that can really help!

 

[Bravnik]

Ok seeing as I came from an S2000 (2001) to the MS3, I feel I can answer your questions.

1. Yes an Intake gives you about 20WHP (give or take on which one).

2. Yes a shifter makes a difference but it will NEVER be like the S2000 - This is the only thing I miss about the S2000 really. I personally have the Cobb STS.

3. The engine mounts are a hit and miss it seems but there are plenty of aftermarket solutions in place.

4. The smoking turbos can be chalked up to mostly oil blowback when running more boost.

After having my S2000 for 5 years I had enough of the vert. Yeah it's nice on those not too hot/cold days, but it gets old. I had a small tear in mine and when I looked at the cost to replace the vert I was like WTF!

The MS3 is faster, more practical and is simply more fun to drive. Going from 9k to 6k is a Rev Limiter nightmare though I bounced off my rev limiter so many times when I got the MS3

If you go with the MS3 I think you will be very happy. Drop $500 into it and no NA S2000 will keep up. Even with a hatch full of groceries.

Not to mention the Glove Box is bigger than the S2000 trunk. Hell you can probably fit a dead body in there. Take a look when you do the test drive. However, I do miss the hidden compartment in the S2000.

Gas mileage is about the same to be honest as well, so you will not see any real decrease or increase.

 

[Design]

I've also spent quite a lot of time in the S2K; Bravnik summarized it pretty well. I'll also add that the S2K's suspension "hugs" the road much better, while the MS3's has a slight float to it. Mazda's approach is to use softer springs and beefier sways for more practical daily driving. You may miss the RWD a little, but the mid range torque more than makes up for it.

I have a daughter which is why I upgraded to the MS3. Plenty of practical room for the stroller, child seat(s), and supplies. Wife finds the seats extremely comfortable for longer trips, and the daughter falls asleep within 5 minutes of being on the road.

The only downside is that you'll always be looking for excuses to take the family somewhere, or arrive late to work taking the scenic route.

 

[Hank3]

Ok seeing as I came from an S2000 (2001) to the MS3, I feel I can answer your questions.

1. Yes an Intake gives you about 20WHP (give or take on which one).

2. Yes a shifter makes a difference but it will NEVER be like the S2000 - This is the only thing I miss about the S2000 really. I personally have the Cobb STS.

3. The engine mounts are a hit and miss it seems but there are plenty of aftermarket solutions in place.

4. The smoking turbos can be chalked up to mostly oil blowback when running more boost.

After having my S2000 for 5 years I had enough of the vert. Yeah it's nice on those not too hot/cold days, but it gets old. I had a small tear in mine and when I looked at the cost to replace the vert I was like WTF!

The MS3 is faster, more practical and is simply more fun to drive. Going from 9k to 6k is a Rev Limiter nightmare though I bounced off my rev limiter so many times when I got the MS3

If you go with the MS3 I think you will be very happy. Drop $500 into it and no NA S2000 will keep up. Even with a hatch full of groceries.

Not to mention the Glove Box is bigger than the S2000 trunk. Hell you can probably fit a dead body in there. Take a look when you do the test drive. However, I do miss the hidden compartment in the S2000.

Gas mileage is about the same to be honest as well, so you will not see any real decrease or increase.

Good post

 

[Kain]

Not to mention the Glove Box is bigger than the S2000 trunk. Hell you can probably fit a dead hooker in there, maybe even two if you chop them up first to hide the evidence from the cops.

 

[ZoomZoomH]

keep the s2000, get another daily car.

 

[Circle9]

That's why you need a Mazdaspeed3, you shouldn't have to chop the hooker up to make her fit in the trunk, the back hatch of the Speed3 will take a body just fine.

 

[dizzin9]

@psychophd

should you? yes you should! i don't see why not. 263 hp, 6-spd, 4 doors, good trunk space esp. w/ folding seats -- perfect for a small family. get at least a 2008.5 gt (or if you don't mind sport), they're going pretty darn cheap nowadays. if you go for a sedan, well, i really don't know which ones are good (and i own an altima).

thought about getting an SUV? CX-7?

 

[MSMS3]

Good summary by others.

Only points I would add:

If you are looking for a high performance four door family car, I defy anyone to point you to a car with this performance in this price range with this size of interior space, with the cargo space, even with the rear seats up, and especially with them down.

Then there's the quality and reliability issues. I don't think there is any other comparable product on the market with the established reliability of this line of Mazda cars.

Gee, I ought to be selling these damn things, based on my enthusiasm, but I just like the combination of utility, practicality and strong performance.

For what it's worth, I have both the MSCAI and a full catless DP/RP. I can chirp the tires at will with a 5500-6000 rpm shift FROM SECOND TO THIRD on most surfaces, have made many, many hard launches and WOT runs up into 5th gear, and at approaching 15K miles am still on the original engine mounts.

I've learned by trial and error that the car does not have a problem with flat shifts (no pedal lift) and seems less likely to miss gears at WOT in using that technique!

I'm not saying to use or "abuse" your car like this, but I'm not seeing a need to put in harder, more vibration engine/tranny mounts. Yes, a fwd car with an engine/transaxle layout like our is never going to shift like your S2000.

Nor will our severely understeering chassis with lift throttle oversteer ever handle as neutrally as your S2000. But power makes up for a lot of handling shortcomings, and smoothness becomes a lot more important.

In the end, I say, if you try to find a better, more spacious, better equipped, more solidly constructed four door in our price range that can perform like the MS3, I don't think it's out there.

 

[Circle9]

I was able to chirp the tires of my stock Si when I went from 2nd to 3rd.

 

[Design]

I've been looking at some options for a 5 door hatch, and it seems like the '07-09 MS3 seems like a good bet (STI is still having some teething issues and chews through gas; GTI and A3 may have questionable long term reliability as I plan to keep it forever, 3-series BMW wagon not my cup of tea).

To be fair, and to make it sound like we're not total fanboys over here, go test drive the 09 WRX hatch as well. It tied with the GTI as my 2nd choice among new cars in this price range. On paper, it's a good performer with decent space for the family. I say this knowing you'll most likely choose the MS3 anyway, lol.

In the end you'll feel better knowing you made an educated decision. Here are some others (with stats) in this price range:

 

[cosic]

If I had the chance to get a the s2k over the MS3 (Wouldn't buy a NEW s2k in a million years) I so would have done it! Something about being 20, driving a 2 door convertible.. hmmm wouldn't get the good kind of attention. Plus, I was 19 at the time I got my MS3..

 

[psychophd]

woah... I step away for a few hours and there's already two pages of replies.

Thanks for the info. I don't plan to do major modding (keep the stock turbo - I've never had a boosted car before - sounds like I 'need' to do the motor mounts and shifter, and probably an intake).

I really do like my S, and hope to get something similar in, well, 10 years. Family obligations first. I would love to pick up a MS3 and keep my S, but it would be wise to sell, as I think it'll be near cost neutral (+/- $3k), and I'm saving up for a new home. I'd love to have an Exige equivalent down the road.

Looking forward to trying one out this wkend... any thoughts on Sport vs. GT: I don't need nav, so how good is the Bose and the other little goodies? I'm used to putting in aftermarket stereo stuff, but I can be lazy too.

 

[Hank3]

You'll get mixed reviews on the Bose system. It's decent for what it is, but don't expect great lows and highs. For the common folk, I think it's plenty good. The HIDs, LED tails, and leather bolsters are nice for the GT. NAV is pretty weak as it's outdated and not too great of a system - but this is an option for the GT. Coming from an S2K, don't expect the cutoff from the HIDs to be as clear and defined; and the light spread isn't as wide...but it's a decent OEM HID system.