Decide to swap my 52 k engine in and rebuild my original since its has 171k there's no point of rebuilding a healthily engine but I wanted to know if I add stronger rods like pauters rods and the doc b oil system left the stock crankshaft and piston in 52k engine would that allow me to run 12 psi safely with a tune
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Rods and doc b
- Thread starter fuadmsp
- Start date
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
yes you will need to machine the piston to accept the free floating wrist pin of the aftermarket rods. Stock pistons are good till around 300whp. Hi boost used to do this years ago
Why would that be aren't they made for the msp I haven't bought rods or pistons before but I figure u can use stock rode with aftermarket pistons so I thought it would be vice versa.... From what I've read most people's rods go out cuz of zero oil pressure and two cuz they can't handle much psi
- :
- 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege 1660, 2004 Winning Blue RX8, 2005 Mazda6
Why would that be aren't they made for the msp I haven't bought rods or pistons before but I figure u can use stock rode with aftermarket pistons so I thought it would be vice versa.... From what I've read most people's rods go out cuz of zero oil pressure and two cuz they can't handle much psi
Rods don't fail due to lack of oil pressure. That's a symptom of another failure like rod bearing failure due to oil starvation, which would lead to rod failure.
My main thing is to make reliably 270 to the wheels Ive read people putting down that power on a complete stock block but I don't want to risk it I know forged pistons aren't really need unless ur going pass 300 but meth injection could probably help the stock pistons hold a little over 300
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
The aftermarket rods are made for the msp but the wrist pin the use is free floating. Which means the pin can rotate while its inside the piston. The stock wrist pins are pressed into the pistons and do not rotate iirc which is why the stock pistons will need to be machined for the forged rods.
Thanks for the clarification Is it worth getting aftermarket rods I'm also looking at the m.tech set of rods from crossover for 385 looking at pauter they are kind of expensive..... I would like to get pauters for the engine coming out with forged pistons I'm just looking to have some fun with 52k engine while I rebuild the 171k engine
Rods don't fail due to lack of oil pressure. That's a symptom of another failure like rod bearing failure due to oil starvation, which would lead to rod failure.
Thanks for the help
The aftermarket rods are made for the msp but the wrist pin the use is free floating. Which means the pin can rotate while its inside the piston. The stock wrist pins are pressed into the pistons and do not rotate iirc which is why the stock pistons will need to be machined for the forged rods.
- :
- 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege 1660, 2004 Winning Blue RX8, 2005 Mazda6
My main thing is to make reliably 270 to the wheels Ive read people putting down that power on a complete stock block but I don't want to risk it I know forged pistons aren't really need unless ur going pass 300 but meth injection could probably help the stock pistons hold a little over 300
Joey (Knox Joe) was putting down 267whp on a relatively low-mileage engine (55k miles), professionally tuned stand alone Microtech, 10psi, Methanol injection, 3" downpipe-back exhaust, etc. and he bent a rod after running that for no more than a couple of months...
A set of pistons is another $500... The engine is completely torn down... I can't imagine what the charge would be to have the OE pistons machined, but it's probably not too cheap... Just put the forged pistons in and be done with it. I had this same idea, too, but after finding out the pistons would need machining, I skipped that idea.
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
knox put down 240whp
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
yea knox had a low of tq down low and if you see in the video thats where he blew his motor putting too much stress on the motor in the low end
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
only to clarify a few things...
All pistons are of the 'floating' variety...Every piston has to be able to rotate on the wrist pins...whether an assembly is 'floating' or not is related to the small end of the connecting rod. A floating rod allows articulation of the wrist pin at the small end, a pressed rod does not...A stock FS-DE has press fit connecting rods, but almost every aftermarket forged rod available is of the floating variety.
press fit wrist pins have one small advantage...they do not allow 'pin walk', where the pin will try to slide out of the piston into the cylinder walls...pistons used with floating wrist pins need to have a cavity machined around the pin bore to accept clips on the pins which prevent this...however, almost any engine builder would recommend for any type of performance engine...keeping a floating pin connecting rod's attributes...press fit pins remove one aspect of assembly articulation...if you create some radical chamber temps for whatever reason, an expanding piston can...and often does seize to the wrist pin temporarily...on a floating connecting rod...this results in the builder only worrying about what caused the temps to spike...on a pressed pin setup...you built a grenade...
Its unproven, but i've long felt this is exactly what cracks so many FS-DE stock bottom ends in heavy turbo builds...the piston swells, locks to the pin, the connecting rod can no longer move with the crank...something breaks...The FS has a reputation for 'very weak' connecting rods from the factory, but i never fully bought that. I did a lot of work and testing in college on an FS engine, and the bottom end could hold 7800 rpm relatively well (it was the breathing that was a problem) despite an embarrassing rod ratio and astronomically high piston acceleration...but it would hold...yet guys would put up 9psi and break them left and right in 4th gear pulls under heavy load...I've always felt it was the combination of pistons that swell a lot under boosted temperatures...and pressed wrist pins...it was simply that the connecting rod was what go destroyed from it, as it was what had no where to go...but not the rods themselves being trash...The evidence is there, most pictures i've seen illustrates a bent rod...not a blown out small or bottom end (although bearing damage often results as well)...if you 'lock' the pins through galling, a bent rod is the first result...
So I would say DO NOT have a shop try to press pins into your forged rods to accept the stock pistons...just have them machine them to accept the floating pin variety, and a little cup like indentation to make room for retention clips...i'd bet that is fine for 250 to 300whp with proper tuning...
All pistons are of the 'floating' variety...Every piston has to be able to rotate on the wrist pins...whether an assembly is 'floating' or not is related to the small end of the connecting rod. A floating rod allows articulation of the wrist pin at the small end, a pressed rod does not...A stock FS-DE has press fit connecting rods, but almost every aftermarket forged rod available is of the floating variety.
press fit wrist pins have one small advantage...they do not allow 'pin walk', where the pin will try to slide out of the piston into the cylinder walls...pistons used with floating wrist pins need to have a cavity machined around the pin bore to accept clips on the pins which prevent this...however, almost any engine builder would recommend for any type of performance engine...keeping a floating pin connecting rod's attributes...press fit pins remove one aspect of assembly articulation...if you create some radical chamber temps for whatever reason, an expanding piston can...and often does seize to the wrist pin temporarily...on a floating connecting rod...this results in the builder only worrying about what caused the temps to spike...on a pressed pin setup...you built a grenade...
Its unproven, but i've long felt this is exactly what cracks so many FS-DE stock bottom ends in heavy turbo builds...the piston swells, locks to the pin, the connecting rod can no longer move with the crank...something breaks...The FS has a reputation for 'very weak' connecting rods from the factory, but i never fully bought that. I did a lot of work and testing in college on an FS engine, and the bottom end could hold 7800 rpm relatively well (it was the breathing that was a problem) despite an embarrassing rod ratio and astronomically high piston acceleration...but it would hold...yet guys would put up 9psi and break them left and right in 4th gear pulls under heavy load...I've always felt it was the combination of pistons that swell a lot under boosted temperatures...and pressed wrist pins...it was simply that the connecting rod was what go destroyed from it, as it was what had no where to go...but not the rods themselves being trash...The evidence is there, most pictures i've seen illustrates a bent rod...not a blown out small or bottom end (although bearing damage often results as well)...if you 'lock' the pins through galling, a bent rod is the first result...
So I would say DO NOT have a shop try to press pins into your forged rods to accept the stock pistons...just have them machine them to accept the floating pin variety, and a little cup like indentation to make room for retention clips...i'd bet that is fine for 250 to 300whp with proper tuning...
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Replies
- 1
- Views
- 2K
- Replies
- 1
- Views
- 2K