Potentially silly Newb question about stock MS3 brakes...

[Beltonius]

So I've been enjoying the hell out of my 8 day old Cosmic Blue Grand Touring. Everything's been great (heck, even the mileage...I hit over 30mpg on a day of cruising the highway at 75). Today I was sitting at a red light and depressed the brake pedal to the floor and noticed that once the pedal bottomed out it seemed to 'click' into place and then when I released the pedal there seemed to be significantly less resistance on the pedal. I thought it might be some kind of hill-start assist function, but that did not seem the be the case either in the way the car behaved (still rolled backwards) or in the total lack of mention of such a feature in the manual.

Anyway...am I somehow imagining this, or can someone offer an explanation?

Thanks, in advance, for the help. I'm pretty sure I'll be frequenting these forums in the future.

 

[jp4130]

Welcome to the forum Beltonius.

The car has a brake assist feature, when the pedal is pressed in a panick stop hard enough it engages. It then keeps the brakes fully depressed until you are only applying light pressure on the brake pedal. The reason behind this is researchers found that people in panick stop situations initiate braking with enough pressure, however they then ease off a little, thus causing them to use more distance to stop.

This system is not tied into the ms3 traction control, my reguler 3 with no traction control also had this system.

 

[sperry]

Is this for real? I've never heard of something like that, and it's the kind of thing that will put you into a wall at a race track (inability to modulate the brakes at the limit)!

 

[Beltonius]

Thanks JP. That's what I was beginning to suspect from reading through the manual.

 

[Super Unique]

is this feature disabled when you turn dsc off?

 

[Vord]

Is this for real? I've never heard of something like that, and it's the kind of thing that will put you into a wall at a race track (inability to modulate the brakes at the limit)!

Although I don't race, I doubt you will be slamming your breaks that hard. Also, once the brakes are completely released, the feature turns off. I do see were you are coming from. Generally, when things get done automatically performance at extremes degrades (Hence traction control being bad for drags, etc.).

 

[sperry]

Although I don't race, I doubt you will be slamming your breaks that hard. Also, once the brakes are completely released, the feature turns off. I do see were you are coming from. Generally, when things get done automatically performance at extremes degrades (Hence traction control being bad for drags, etc.).

I guarantee you at 120mph, I can push the brakes to the floor and not lock them up... there's so much inertia at that speed, the wheels keep turning. However, as the speed bleeds off, you need to drastically back off the brakes to keep from locking/triggering the ABS. If the car automatically keeps the pedal pinned until you've all but taken your foot off, any attempt to trail brake will pretty much result in either understeering right off the corner, or spinning the car out due to an inability to shift some weight back to the rear of the car (depending on the suspension setup of the car... I've not driven one yet).

Either way, I'm not really planning on tracking my MS3 if/when I get one, because I've already got a track car that's craptons faster and safer... but for anyone planning on driving at the limit in conditions other than panic stopping, this should be disabled IMO.

 

[MS3077]

sperry - what car do you have that's "craptons faster" than the MS3? Just curious, not saying I don't believe you. Modded out the ass STI / EVO?

I guess my definition of "craptons faster" would be like New Civic SI vs. MS3. In this case the MS3 would be "craptons faster" lol!

I just noticed your sig. I'm a big fan of NIN! (lick)

 

[Vord]

I guarantee you at 120mph, I can push the brakes to the floor and not lock them up... there's so much inertia at that speed, the wheels keep turning. However, as the speed bleeds off, you need to drastically back off the brakes to keep from locking/triggering the ABS. If the car automatically keeps the pedal pinned until you've all but taken your foot off, any attempt to trail brake will pretty much result in either understeering right off the corner, or spinning the car out due to an inability to shift some weight back to the rear of the car (depending on the suspension setup of the car... I've not driven one yet).

Either way, I'm not really planning on tracking my MS3 if/when I get one, because I've already got a track car that's craptons faster and safer... but for anyone planning on driving at the limit in conditions other than panic stopping, this should be disabled IMO.

Interisting...You bring up a good point, as I said I don't like it (or agree with it), but I see why mazda has these stuff here. Generally the 3 competes with the civic which never was a performance (and probably never will be)
car. Mazda has to pay the bills so it appeases safety organizations so that people buy the car.

I understand where you are coming from now though.

 

[oaklandopen]

it almost reminds me of the fact that there are still ppl out there who insist on pumping ABS brakes. this almost sounds like a feature that would prevent a pumping of the brakes during ABS engagement.

and as for the understeer comment, im not sure if you were specifically talking about track racing, but understeering is considered more favorable than oversteer when involving some type of accident. so that could be another reason why the brakes act the way they do.

 

[sperry]

sperry - what car do you have that's "craptons faster" than the MS3? Just curious, not saying I don't believe you. Modded out the ass STI / EVO?

I guess my definition of "craptons faster" would be like New Civic SI vs. MS3. In this case the MS3 would be "craptons faster" lol!

I just noticed your sig. I'm a big fan of NIN! (lick)

I've got a 450hp STi/6MT swapped WRX time trials car.

...course right now it's got 0 hp

 

[sperry]

it almost reminds me of the fact that there are still ppl out there who insist on pumping ABS brakes. this almost sounds like a feature that would prevent a pumping of the brakes during ABS engagement.

and as for the understeer comment, im not sure if you were specifically talking about track racing, but understeering is considered more favorable than oversteer when involving some type of accident. so that could be another reason why the brakes act the way they do.

Understeer is *much* safer than oversteer, especially on a street car. I totally understand why this brake lockout whatsamajigger will make the car safer during panic stops and accident avoidance maneuvers on the street.

The problem is at the race track, the choices are "stay on track and make the corner" or "plow off the track and into the gravel", so I'd rather the former by being able to disable that braking "feature". :lol:

 

[mordant80]

You know, I've noticed with autocrossing mine when I get on the brakes real hard, it feels like the brakes are still fully engaged for a split second after I let off. Never bothered me enough to ask, but it sounds like it might be related to this. Anyone else ever felt what I'm talking about?

 

[Speedered]

Does the MS3 have 2 or 4 abs?

 

[PCspeed3]

This explains that video on youtube of a speed3 flying of the track into a wall from "brakes failing".

 

[SuperStretch18]

This explains that video on youtube of a speed3 flying of the track into a wall from "brakes failing".

Not really. That guy is a member here and he said his rear pads were worn down to the metal when that happened...

 

[WagonMan]

I have seen a number of people post about tracking their MS3s and not notice any problem with the brakes.

COBB has tracked their MS3 extensively, and never commented on any brake problems.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You know, I've noticed with autocrossing mine when I get on the brakes real hard, it feels like the brakes are still fully engaged for a split second after I let off. Never bothered me enough to ask, but it sounds like it might be related to this. Anyone else ever felt what I'm talking about?

Yeah, I use the power assist all the time at the finish line... It will not engage if you don't slam on the brakes. Its does not interfere with performance driving/racing if you know your car.

The only time I use it, is when I'm barreling through the finish and need to stop on a dime. Just slam on the brakes and your blood will flow straight to your face!!! It's awesome!!!! No tire screeching or anything.

At first when I was learning my MS3 on the track, I did engage it in the corners a few times, I was used to my non-ABS Miata brakes, anyway, there is a slight delay for the power assist to deactivate. If it happens on course, just forget about your lap...it kills time your times.

But like I said, if you are familiar with driving/racing your MS3, you know how far you can push the pedal before it activates...you really have to push on them hard to activate it.

 

[PCspeed3]

Not really. That guy is a member here and he said his rear pads were worn down to the metal when that happened...

since i know that guy personally and I talk to him everyday about his bad brakes......

 

[SuperStretch18]

Maybe we're talking about different wrecks. This is the one I was referring to:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123684925&highlight=brake+failure+MS3