Performance upgrades

sleepre52

Member
:
Mazda CX-5
Hi guys.

New to this forum and was wondering if you guys can help me with basic performance upgrades on my newly bought CX-5 with manual transmission.
I honestly really like the car compared to its rivals and my only complain is it needs a bit more power.
I was looking around 30 bhp boost particularly on the low to mid end rpm.
Do you guys have any recommendations (ie. aftermarket exhaust, air intake, ECU re-flash, etc.) to get said boost?
I only ask that it A.) doesn't affect reliability, B.) doesn't drop fuel economy and C.) doesn't add too much noise (a little noisy is okay.)
 
I want to be a wise arse and say get a 2014 to get the 29hp increase but I won't (cheers2). Welcome to the forum...hopefully someone smarter than I can help you out (thumb)
 
Hi guys.

New to this forum and was wondering if you guys can help me with basic performance upgrades on my newly bought CX-5 with manual transmission.
I honestly really like the car compared to its rivals and my only complain is it needs a bit more power.
I was looking around 30 bhp boost particularly on the low to mid end rpm.
Do you guys have any recommendations (ie. aftermarket exhaust, air intake, ECU re-flash, etc.) to get said boost?
I only ask that it A.) doesn't affect reliability, B.) doesn't drop fuel economy and C.) doesn't add too much noise (a little noisy is okay.)

30 Hp without A, B, or C is impossible without spending $$$$ and even that is probably impossible without effecting A, B, or C. You're better off trading it in for the CX-5 with the 2.5 liter engine although that will effect C. I can tell you though that after about 2000 miles the 2.0-liter engine breaks in and becomes noticeably more alive.
 
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I'm quite pleased with the power of my 2.0L with AWD but I test drove it first to make sure. If Mazda could have increased the power without affecting reliability, fuel consumption or noise - they would have. The 2014 is available with a 2.5L engine but, of course, fuel consumption suffers. And the vehicle is over 100 lbs. heavier affecting handling and payload capacity negatively.

There are no free lunches, buy the car that suits your needs.
 
30 Hp without A, B, or C is impossible without spending $$$$ and even that is probably impossible without effecting A, B, or C. You're better off trading it in for the CX-5 with the 2.5 liter engine although that will effect C. I can tell you though that after about 2000 miles the 2.0-liter engine breaks in and becomes noticeably more alive.

I am willing to spend up to $3,000 for the said 30 to 40 Hp.
I already know that I have to spend money coming in. Is that not doable?

With regard to A, B, and C - I am willing to compromise on C and a little bit of B but not A. lol.

What about forced induction, do you guys recommend and which kit in particular?
 
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Sleepre52, unless you are taking this thing to the drag strip and want to win an all out race than you should forget horsepower. Horsepower should mean nothing for a relatively heavy street vehicle like the CX-5. Horsepower is overrated and grossly misunderstood. Its so true when they say horsepower sells and torque moves cars. If you want it to feel more peppy and have more off the line snap than what you really want is more torque and specifically more low end torque. Don't believe me than compare the Mazda diesel engine with the same horsepower to Mazda s gasoline equivalent. They are both about equal in an all out race but if you drive them side by side the diesel feels much more alive. Because you are working with a small 2.0 liter engine for a 3200 lb SUV your options are very limited. There are some tricks that may work that have worked for me in the past. Mazda has already tuned this little 4 pot to the max for low end grunt and economy. High flow filters and intakes only compromise your low end torque for a few useless top end horsepower. larger exhaust systems compromise low end even more and make a lot of noise. In fact There are exceptions to this and pipe diameter is much more important than the type of muffler used.

Keep in mind that there is going to be a very noticeable difference in the responsiveness of your engine once it breaks in. It will be noticeable I promise you this. One trick that has worked well for me in the past is to only change the stock muffler with a high flow muffler. Chambered mufflers are better but glass packed mufflers also work well in the short term. Glass packed mufflers tend to get louder over time as the packing clogs and breaks down. Spintech, Borla, and Magnaflow are a few that I know work well. try to get a SS one for longevity. Spintech has some that flow real well but are still somewhat quiet. DO not change the stock pipe if you can help it. If you do than you have to change it with the EXACT same diameter as the stock pipe. What ever you do do not go larger. This will increase exhaust gas flow at lower revs and allow the engine to make a little more low end. I got 12 lb ft and 4 horsepower with a stock Toyota V8 by just changing the muffler. I lost low end torque when I installed larger pipe.
 
I am willing to spend up to $3,000 for the said 30 to 40 Hp.
I already know that I have to spend money coming in. Is that not doable?

With regard to A, B, and C - I am willing to compromise on C and a little bit of B but not A. lol.

What about forced induction, do you guys recommend and which kit in particular?

Lets get a few things upfront. Engines where you can get an extra 30 HP, without forced induction, tend to be larger, and tend to be very well researched. Typically 30 HP would require cam shafts, engine retuning and probably an exhaust. As far as I know, and I am new to Mazdas, there are very limited options for the 2.0/2.5 engines. You want to modify a 2.3 Miata - lots of options. The engine in a CX-5, not so much.

You could probably rig up a low pressure turbo or super charger, but due to the high compression ratio on the engine, 13:1, you won't be able to get much pressure before pinging sets in, and high octane fuel would be required to get much out of it. You should be able to get your 30-40 hp, but it will be expensive and almost definitely an untested, one-off system. And to be safe, most turbo systems run richer, which hurts your fuel economy. (This is not true on very well tested applications, but this one would not be one of those.) If you actually USE the extra horsepower, you will negatively impact fuel economy.

You can do it, I am sure. I just don't have a reasonably priced or proven system. Especially not one that doesn't affect reliability. Any one-off system is going to have a lot of reliability issues - continual updates, didn't think about this operating condition type of thing.
 
Lets get a few things upfront. Engines where you can get an extra 30 HP, without forced induction, tend to be larger, and tend to be very well researched.

Your complete answer is excellent. Good job. However, I would phase the first sentence differently. I think what you mean is that engines where you can get an extra 30 HP using off the shelf components tend to be very well researched (and have kits developed by the after market). I would also add, if you can get 20% more HP from an engine without affecting reliability and longevity then the engine is already woefully under-optimized to begin with. That is not the case with the 2.0L CX-5 engine.

And you are spot-on with the reliability thing.
 
Sleepre52, unless you are taking this thing to the drag strip and want to win an all out race than you should forget horsepower. Horsepower should mean nothing for a relatively heavy street vehicle like the CX-5. Horsepower is overrated and grossly misunderstood.

I see this old misconception quite often on internet forums (and hear it repeated in real life by well-meaning but unknowledgeable persons). The misconception has it's origins in the fact that muscle cars historically had only 3 gears and first gear was very tall by modern standards. People would put on race cams, bigger carbs, etc. They would gain top end HP but lose HP in the lower rpm range (commonly referred to as "torque"). And their car would lose a lot of speed off the line due to the tall gearing of 1st gear.

Its so true when they say horsepower sells and torque moves cars. If you want it to feel more peppy and have more off the line snap than what you really want is more torque and specifically more low end torque.

That's one way to skin a cat. But, if you look at the problem of "off the line snap" you will see that it comes down to one thing and only one thing (ignoring the issue of tire traction which becomes more problematic as you move up the performance scale). That one thing is called torque but it is NOT engine torque, it's wheel torque. And the quickest way to get more wheel torque is to have a shorter 1st gear. Modern cars, with their 4,5,6, and even 8 speed transmissions have much lower 1st gears than cars of the past. That's what makes torque at the drive wheels. Torque is simply HP x gearing. And, yes, HP does matter. Engine torque is a completely different beast. Engine torque is simply a convenient way to specify how much HP an engine is producing at a given RPM. Engine torque is, at it's essence, HP divided by rpm. But it is all just HP looked at in a different way (taking RPM into consideration). An engine considered "high torque" can produce more HP at a lower RPM than an engine considered low torque. As long as both engines have a broad spread of power and suitable gearing there will not be much difference in performance (assuming they have comparable breadth to their HP curves and similar HP through the curve, even though it happens at different RPM's). Performance does not care how fast the engine is spinning. My Ducati motorcycles have a broad spread of power (from 4500 rpm to 10,000 rpm. and they have six speed transmissions to make the most of it. There are modern HD's that make the same peak engine torque but they feel slow and gutless in comparison (because both bikes have suitable gearing but the Ducati makes more HP over a wider rev range). It's about torque to the pavement, engine torque is just an esoteric number when you can have any gearing you want.


Don't believe me than compare the Mazda diesel engine with the same horsepower to Mazda s gasoline equivalent. They are both about equal in an all out race but if you drive them side by side the diesel feels much more alive.

That's simply because the diesel makes more HP over a wider range of rpm's. Call it torque if you like but what really matters is the breadth of the hp rpm range of an engine and peak torque numbers are not a very good way to specify this (look at the Ducati/HD example above). Some engines simply have their torque band higher in the rpm range (and that torque band can be just as broad as an engine with more torque). As long as the vehicle is appropriately geared the torque to the pavement will be the same. And torque to the pavement is what does the work (not peak engine torque). Fortunately, even the little 2.0L CX-5 engine has a very broad spread of HP in it's RPM range and, below 2000 rpm, there is still an "eco range" that produces efficient power for those times when it is just necessary to maintain speed and the vehicle is not going fast enough to need a lot of power to overcome large aerodynamic force (parasitic drag). Traditional engines are very inefficient when asked to produce only 5-10% of their peak power.
 
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Hang in there until the aftermarket figures out what to do with these engines... It'll probably come from the Mazda3 crowd... A rotrex supercharger with an ic would be awesome, but the big issues, as with any engine tuning, is going to be in what kind of PCM controller/programmer they come out with...

Once someone comes out with that, then the rest will become doable for the rest of us...

In the meantime... Suspension!
 
Mike you completely lost me! Its as simple as this; Torque * RPM/ 5252 RPM = horsepower. 1 lb ft of torque is the ability to exert 1 lb of force at a distance of 1 foot from the center line of rotation.

When an engine or vehicle has its power measured on a dynomometer what is measured is the actual twisting force at the crankshaft or axle. This twisting force is called torque and horsepower is just calculated from this torque. The only way an engine can make big horsepower is if it revs high and maintains high torque or if it makes lots of low end torque. If you look at a dyno graph you will see that the torque and horsepower lines always cross at 5252 RPM.

When a vehicle has the ability to push you into the seat as it accelerates what you are feeling is torque. Horsepower cannot be felt because its not tangible. Horsepower cannot be measured or felt because horsepower is just a mathematical calculation that determines how much work an engine can do. This is why I say horsepower is over rated. Everyone focuses on horsepower when what really counts is torque especially in a street vehicle designed to give some performance without sacrificing economy in doing so. I can see in a race vehicle why high end torque and so horsepower is then important because you can use gearing to make the car faster but fuel economy will suffer. No one wants to have to downshift every time they want to pass someone either. If you have good low end torque than you'll have to do this less often and be happier in day to day traffic even with a 6 speed transmission.

So to make it simple what you want is torque everywhere you can have it but if you want your relatively heavy SUV to feel peppy and not have to always have the engine racing than what you want is more low end torque.

In the ideal situation what you would have is a fat torque curve right off idle and be able to carry that all the way to red line. This is the area under the curve. Unfortunately most internal combustion engines have a narrow torque band where you either have lower end power or higher end power but not both. Engines today are much better than ever though with technology's like variable valve timing, turbocharging, variable induction, and exhaust systems.

Sleepre52 CXVille is right, there not much that can be done with this engine right now.
 
When an engine or vehicle has its power measured on a dynomometer what is measured is the actual twisting force at the crankshaft or axle. This twisting force is called torque and horsepower is just calculated from this torque.

Actually that is incorrect.

The dynometer is measuring how much work is being done (how fast a drum of known weight is accelerated). The amount of work being done is a measure of power and the unit commonly used is horsepower. Engine torque must be calculated from this figure by knowing at what RPM the engine was at at every point in time that the measurement was being taken. Without knowing the engine's rpm, the engine torque cannot be calculated. And yet the drum is still accelerated and the HP can be measured (without knowing the engine's rpm at all). Engine torque is the derived figure, the dynometer measures engine hp directly without needing to know the rpm of the engine.
 
In the UK we still use BHP.

BHP is the power at the wheels.

HP is the power at the crankshaft.

Many people read manufactures figures in HP, or PS, and automatically quote the same figure but use BHP.
I get quite a lot of abuse when i point this out to some owners.

I find it annoying, on a UK forum a chap who had just bought a CX-5 wouldn't accept that his car was 173bhp, he was quoting 175bhp, when the Mazda site quotes 175hp.

It would be simpler all round if ratings were in KW.
 
I'd like my 5 to have more umph as well but i don't buy that an intake and exhaust will do anything thats worth the money. One thing i plan to do that has worked well on cars in the past is light weight wheels. Its truly a worthy investment in almost all aspects of driving dynamics but its expensive. Reduced rotational mass can aid acceleration, braking and handling. And could positively effect gas mileage. This, granted your not increasing the diameter dramatically. I.E. 17's to 22's I once replaced stock wheels with Enkei rpf1's and was amazed at the difference. Even the steering felt lighter and more responsive.

There's an old rule of thumb with wheels that goes like this, to some effect.

Light weight, strong, cheap: pick two.
 
I'd like my 5 to have more umph as well but i don't buy that an intake and exhaust will do anything thats worth the money. One thing i plan to do that has worked well on cars in the past is light weight wheels. Its truly a worthy investment in almost all aspects of driving dynamics but its expensive. Reduced rotational mass can aid acceleration, braking and handling. And could positively effect gas mileage. This, granted your not increasing the diameter dramatically. I.E. 17's to 22's I once replaced stock wheels with Enkei rpf1's and was amazed at the difference. Even the steering felt lighter and more responsive.

There's an old rule of thumb with wheels that goes like this, to some effect.

Light weight, strong, cheap: pick two.

I agree, probably the best option on the table currently. It is highly unlikely the 2.0l S-G will ever have the type of aftermarket support to throw on any significant mods, with worthwhile gains.
It is a rather measly engine anyway...
 
Actually that is incorrect.

The dynometer is measuring how much work is being done (how fast a drum of known weight is accelerated). The amount of work being done is a measure of power and the unit commonly used is horsepower. Engine torque must be calculated from this figure by knowing at what RPM the engine was at at every point in time that the measurement was being taken. Without knowing the engine's rpm, the engine torque cannot be calculated. And yet the drum is still accelerated and the HP can be measured (without knowing the engine's rpm at all). Engine torque is the derived figure, the dynometer measures engine hp directly without needing to know the rpm of the engine.

What you're describing is exactly how a Dynojet inertia dynamometer works so actually you're right if it is measured on an inertia dynamometer like a Dynojet and I'm right if it is measured on a brake force dynamometer like a Mustang type. I think we narrowed it down to just some minor technicalities but basically were're saying the same things in different ways Mike.

Yeah, even coming from a Volvo sedan's straight 6 cyl. with twin turbos putting out 268 hp I feel the little 2.0L CX-5 has a far more sporty feeling. I like working the little 4 banger in the mountain passes. The Volvo had so much torque it only needs to downshift if you really wanted to move out. And the extra power of the bigger engine was welcome at speeds between 70mph and 150 mph (speeds at which the CX-5 really does feel gutless if it can attain them at all) but I really don't miss it at all with the CX-5 because it is such a well rounded vehicle and it's pretty rare that I feel like driving that fast anyway. And I really like the fact that the recommended grade of fuel for the CX-5 is regular. The Volvo would run on regular but at the expense of power and smoothness, the manual recommended premium. It get's expensive. I still have the Volvo but it sees little use these days because the Mazda is more fun as well as being more practical.

I see you do know about torque as you described here, exactly what I was talking about :-)
 
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There's an old rule of thumb with wheels that goes like this, to some effect.

Light weight, strong, cheap: pick two.
Probably the most helpful thing I have read in my search for new rims. Should be a sticky in the rim section.
 
@bopper Thank you. It always rings true.

I intend to go with RPF1's. In the 18x7.5 size, they weigh just under 17lbs. They're tried and true. I've had em before and they're great wheels as they're light weight and strong. And, they're not outrageously expensive. I also like the generic and neutral look they have. Though the styling is not the most flattering for the 5.
 
what about these wheels?

http://www.enkei.com/kojin.shtml

They use MAT technology just like RPF1's i'd imagine they'd be somewhere in the same ball park in terms of weight. They look pretty good imo and I think would look great on the 5. Though some may disagree.


@bopper Thank you. It always rings true.

I intend to go with RPF1's. In the 18x7.5 size, they weigh just under 17lbs. They're tried and true. I've had em before and they're great wheels as they're light weight and strong. And, they're not outrageously expensive. I also like the generic and neutral look they have. Though the styling is not the most flattering for the 5.
 
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