Perception is reality but the MS3 may be the best balanced car Ive ever driven

[Bravnik]

I agree completely with the OP. I had an S2000 before this car and I thought it was balanced. However, after owning the MS3 I'm really happy with my decision to sell the S2000. Sure I miss the vert aspect, but to be honest after 5years and driving 80miles a day, I don't miss the wind noise one bit.

The MS3 has power, handling and makes a great daily driver. Add a few mods, springs and sway bar and it's one hell of a car for the money.

 

[ZyrehT]

And it had god's own brakes.

Ummm, there isn't a test anywhere that shows it stopping better than ours.

 

[GoFast]

Ummm, there isn't a test anywhere that shows it stopping better than ours.

+1 with the exception of crappy brake fluid, our brakes are amazing. the only time the crappy brake fluid came into play for me is on the track, but any factory brake fluid would have the same results

 

[MSP2k3]

and some here talk of torque steer? Try driving a 2002 Sentra SER Spec Vthat little bastard will clean rip the steering wheel out of your hand

that made me laugh... my last car was also a spec v.

 

[Alexsered]

I owned an 02 specV and that thing was fun but a POS at the same time. I did have alot done to it and it was a track freak, but had way to many problems, and after I replaced the engine, I got rid of it.

I love my speed3, but out of everything I experienced, the most balanced car I would have to say is c6/z06. It will not hold as much, but its comfortable, handles great, and is remarkably great to drive in traffic and as a daily commuter. Even on the highway there have been times of 30+mpg (non-traffic wide open highways with cruise control) For our price range though, nothing really comes too close.

 

[Kain]

When I think of how balanced the MS3 is, what comes to mind is that I can make Home Despot runs, carry a set of wheels/tires, haul furniture, load groceries, and do well on the odd track day.

 

[eg6motion]

When I think of how balanced the MS3 is, what comes to mind is that I can make Home Despot runs, carry a set of wheels/tires, haul furniture, load groceries, and do well on the odd track day.

exactly.

 

[MSP2k3]

I owned an 02 specV and that thing was fun but a POS at the same time. I did have alot done to it and it was a track freak, but had way to many problems, and after I replaced the engine, I got rid of it.

Yeah, my brother bought it from me and he spun a bearing and had to have the engine replaced also. He still has it and is a blast to drive, but the transmission is on its way out now also.

 

[FMOS Racing]

Ummm, there isn't a test anywhere that shows it stopping better than ours.

Magazine numbers put the cars' straight-line stopping distances right about the same (Manual transmission IS300 about 113-115 ft, MS3 about 116-118 ft - I won't quibble about that couple of feet if you won't), but that doesn't mean that a better-balanced car doesn't stop better when things are less than straight-line. Besides, I was talking subjective overall driving experience and not absolute performance numbers.

Purely my opinion.

 

[CnoTataymo]

Haha, I too had a Spec V but an 03'. Sure was an interesting torquey car. Then I got an MSP and now and MS3. Couldn't be any happier.

 

[BillTheCat]

I've only had one serious straight-line screamer, a fully built MKIII Supra Turbo (~500 rwhp). Also had a '73 Chevelle with a 350, but it really wasn't that powerful. Most of my cars have been smaller cars built to handle well more than blow you back in your seat. (Miata, VW Golf, Mazda MX3, MINI Cooper S (x2)) All have been fun in one way or another, but I have to agree that the MS3 is a very good balance of speed, handling, comfort, and practicality.

Like someone else mentioned, the MS3 is not the fastest, doesn't handle the best, isn't the most comfortable, but it's not the "least" in any of those categories, etiher. It's a strong performer across the board with no severe weak points. Unlike most of my cars, which I have owned for 2-3 years & then moved on for various reasons, I could see owning this car for quite a long time.

 

[808MP5]

Test drove one today... pretty fun car... with a decent to moderate boost...
doesn't torque like my p5 though or maybe that's because i didn't get to WOT to third gear... not enough road

 

[ZyrehT]

doesn't torque like my p5 though

That's the difference between warranty and not.

 

[ZyrehT]

Magazine numbers put the cars' straight-line stopping distances right about the same (Manual transmission IS300 about 113-115 ft, MS3 about 116-118 ft - I won't quibble about that couple of feet if you won't), but that doesn't mean that a better-balanced car doesn't stop better when things are less than straight-line. Besides, I was talking subjective overall driving experience and not absolute performance numbers.

Purely my opinion.

I looked at 15 different sites. Not one had the 300 with a better stopping distance. Please show the sites you use.

 

[Alexsered]

I looked at 15 different sites. Not one had the 300 with a better stopping distance. Please show the sites you use.

the brakes on the mazdaspeed3 are very impressive, only one piston but my specV had an upgraded brembo brake system and did not stop as good as my speed3.

 

[FMOS Racing]

Guess you want to quibble, so...

http://www.modernracer.com/lexusis300.html
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/lexus/is300/100003423/specs.html
http://lexus.jbcarpages.com/IS/2002/index3.php

Compared to
http://www.modernracer.com/history/mazdaspeed3history.html (It's a copy of the Edmunds article, apparently)
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=116868
http://www.carreview.com/MAZDASPEED3SPECScrx.aspx

And the IS300 will do it again and again and again. It'll do it even once the chassis has started to lean in a corner. Try that in an MS3 and you'll be looking back down the road you just drove on. Simply a weakness of FWD. My SHO, Probe GT and SVT Contour all left the track backwards at least once from lift throttle oversteer.

 

[Alexsered]

Guess you want to quibble, so...

http://www.modernracer.com/lexusis300.html
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/lexus/is300/100003423/specs.html
http://lexus.jbcarpages.com/IS/2002/index3.php

Compared to
http://www.modernracer.com/history/mazdaspeed3history.html
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=116868
http://www.carreview.com/MAZDASPEED3SPECScrx.aspx

And the IS300 will do it again and again and again. It'll do it even once the chassis has started to lean in a corner. Try that in an MS3 and you'll be looking back down the road you just drove on. Simply a weakness of FWD. My SHO, Probe GT and SVT Contour all left the track backwards at least once from lift throttle oversteer.

I'm confused because every review that I've seen has a stopping distance for the speed3 109-114 ft. This link shows 113, it doesn't seem the is300 performs as well as the speed3 here.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=121942/pageNumber=4

 

[FMOS Racing]

You guys go ahead and base your perception of braking performance off of straight line controlled test magazine numbers (and if you think 2 ft here or there makes a difference... wow). Go ahead and base your perception of handling off of published skidpad numbers, too. If you really think that slamming on the brakes from 60 to a dead stop in a level test or driving around in a circle on a smooth, flat skidpad really indicates the performance of the platform, so be it.

I've driven both cars hard and can tell you that in my OPINION the MS3 isn't nearly as fun to drive AT THE LIMIT as the IS300 was - I'm sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings, but it's the way I call it. But it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. One cost $10K more and had a performance-style suspension and 54/46 weight distribution. The other has a tweaked out economy car suspension and 60/40 weight distribution. One is damned quick in a straight line, the other rather plodding by comparison... but that wasn't the be-all, end-all of the driving experience for me.

I sold the Lexus because it got lousy mileage. Bought a TDI Jetta as a long-haul car. Slow, handles terribly, but it gets 48 mpg loaded with people and dogs and the cruise set at 80. Does that hurt anyones feelings?

 

[Alexsered]

nobody really cares, I just thought it was odd that you wanted to state numbers, and now the numbers dont matter? IS300 is heavier than the mazdaspeed3, slower in acceleration, and has worse breaking. It's probably more fun to drive at the limits because the limits in the IS300 is much closer than the speed3.

Jay Leno has even said that it's more fun to drive a slow car to it's limits than a fast car to it's limits.

 

[rednofive]

You hit the nail on the head. Anyone who is an engineer knows that good engineering is all about compromise and balance. Sure while you could throw a ton of money at attaining perfect parts and designing a perfect machine, it just isn't fiscally feasible when you're trying to sell to the majority. The really great engineering is done on a budget by experts who know where to spend the money. Personally I think the MS3 (hell I believe most Mazdas) is a textbook example of top-notch engineering on a budget. While it's not over engineered, it certainly shows how Mazda knew how to deliver a well-balanced car at an very affordable price.

"hell I believe most Mazdas" really is the key part of this paragraph from Don DiMarco.

I couldn't agree more. Personally I think Mazdas are BMW's with FWD only and the Mazda's with RWD are BMW's, just with less torque. I don't care about all the luxo-crap thrown into the newer BMW's - the BMW's handle better than anything I've gotten to drive of-track (I don't mean drive OFF da track...).

All of the Mazda cars get the same reviews about amazing handling.

I personally built and raced the avatar at the left so I could race for three years with the SCCA in the ITS class. No, it was no SpeedSource7, but I could turn the car with nothing but trailbraking and throttlelift and throttle press. It was perfect. My modded M3 owning friend was envious (though he did remove the stock M3 push problem with his mods).

It isn't terribly fair to compare RWD to FWD in terms of balance, but I think the MS3 is as close to balanced as an FWD will ever get to be. I'm not a fan of the computer-based boost control in the MS3 while in turns or cold weather, but other than that it handles amazingly well. I'd hate to put a sway bar kit on because I bet they all go too far with the rear bar (street posers love stiff bars for low-speed antics but s***'ll kill ya at the track and any real speed).

I'll just say, that of all the FWD cars I've owned or had the privilege to drive, the MS3 far exceeds my expectations for the money.

I've been wishing for a car like this ever since I started driving in '87.
I used to tell my wife that "this isn't just a car I want - this is a car that can offer the best car technologies in the most practical form factor ever derived over the past 100 years of automobile engineering for the lowest price ever offered for the most performance offered."

She was sold the moment she got to ride in it (and I got a raise and some cash and we could actually afford another payment...but hey, we're past the accounting phase now - it's mine!)

I stand by that, but welcome a challenge to it. I wouldn't have sold my E36 325i if I didn't fully believe that.

Consider that in 1996, I bought an Acura Integra GSR for $23K.
$23K.
In 2008 I bought a more practical FWD car for $21.7K that has more space for 4 adults, a hatchback, and 2X the torque and 6 speeds AND with a true LSD? Oh no, no leather.
HUH?
I also test drove the StangGT that same year as the GSR, but solid-axle AND the driver's seat didn't fit me comfortably at only 6'2"? Are we in America? C'mon.

yes, I wish it were RWD. I can't stand FWD, but it is tolerable in this car.
I hear that is also true of the Mini cooper S, but it just isn't practical enough and costs more.

I do miss the BMWCCA, though.

We really need an MCCA.