P5 on the track, brake issues?

[zumi]

Hey guys,

I have the opportunity to go to Thunderhill Raceway in Willows, CA. My car is completely stock, so I was wondering if there should be any concerns, especially about braking.

Is there anything I should bring just in case? Extra brake pads?

Thanks for your input.


**EDIT: Event went great!!! Go here for pics and summary**

 

[zumi]

*bump* Registration is coming soon, I could use some advice! =)

 

[xelderx]

Your brakes will need serious help. The stock rotors cannot hold the heat that will be generated at a track. My rotors were toast after 6 miles in the mountains under heavy braking. I would at least try to get upgraded rotors and change the brake fluid to something like DOT 5.1

 

[toucci]

I advise going easy on the brakes and letting the car rest every few hard laps. the pads wont wear out, the rotors will warp or you'll experience nasty brake fade

 

[RAAZ227]

When my ar was stock I ran it Summit Point raceway. Good tight track with some good straights. The whole car did awesome but the brakes faded REAL fast!

 

[kcbhiw]

I don't really see how the rotors would present a problem. However, the stock pads will. I recommend a set of at least Hawk HP+ pads with a spare set of rotors (front only-precautionary). Under heaving breaking into the corner, you could experience serious brake fade with the stock pads. Hawk HP+ pads are quite good for mild track days. Assuming that this is your first time on such a track, these should suffice. For the seasoned road course racer, the HP+ pads, too, will be insufficient.

The stock rotors are just cast iron rotors like any other. Specual rotors such as slotted/drilled for this situation are unnecessary.

 

[ELEmental59437]

I don't really see how the rotors would present a problem.

Under heavy braking (not normal driving conditions), the rotors may warp. My front rotors became warped because of a few emergency braking situations and I had to have them machined.

 

[kcbhiw]

Under heavy braking (not normal driving conditions), the rotors may warp. My front rotors became warped because of a few emergency braking situations and I had to have them machined.

We've run stock rotors on our Oldsmobile racers (~1000LBS front left) and have yet to experience any warpage of the rotors. I can't quite see how you could suddenly warp a rotor under hard braking. Of the three cars I've owned, all driven rather hard, I've yet to warp a rotor. Perhaps you experienced a fluke?

 

[tttP5]

where is this place Thunderhill Raceway in Willows, CA? and how much is registration?

 

[jaje]

driving a mp5 at a road track is big fun...however its brakes will give you severe fade making it hard to get consistent smooth runs...the oem pads will heatsoak quickly

i suggest with a stock engine to use hawk hp pads (not plus as they will eat up your rotors)...these will be able to handle the added heat and abuse...also while changing out the pads you will want to put in dot 5 fluid and flush the system...too much heat gets transferred to the brake lines in these cars (small brakes, heavier car) and you will boil it quickly at the track

since i normally run 8psi on semi racing slicks i have hawk hp plus pads on brembo blanks (cheap and easy to replace) as at courses like summit piont or vir i get up to 30-40mph faster on the main straights...i have atx super blue (dot 5) ss lines, and will be upgrading to a 4 piston 12" caliper setup in spring that will be custom made

 

[ELEmental59437]

We've run stock rotors on our Oldsmobile racers (~1000LBS front left) and have yet to experience any warpage of the rotors. I can't quite see how you could suddenly warp a rotor under hard braking. Of the three cars I've owned, all driven rather hard, I've yet to warp a rotor. Perhaps you experienced a fluke?

Several people have had their rotors replaced or machined under warranty because of them warping..

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39988

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39868

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34270

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36215

I wouldnt compare rotors on an oldsmobile to the Protege5, thats like comparing the engine in a geo metro to the engine in a BMW.

 

[kcbhiw]

Several people have had their rotors replaced or machined under warranty because of them warping..

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39988

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39868

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34270

http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36215

I wouldnt compare rotors on an oldsmobile to the Protege5, thats like comparing the engine in a geo metro to the engine in a BMW.

I doubt comparing rotors is like comparing engines. Consider at the construction of such objects.

Throughout the years that I've been driving, I've felt the shimmies, wobbles, and the shakes in my cars through the steering wheel. I've yet had to replace a rotor due to these symptoms. You must realize that there are many parts of a car's braking, steering, and suspension systems than can contribute to this. I have yet to see definitive proof of a warped rotor caused by instantaneous extreme braking.

 

[ELEmental59437]

I doubt comparing rotors is like comparing engines. Consider at the construction of such objects.

Throughout the years that I've been driving, I've felt the shimmies, wobbles, and the shakes in my cars through the steering wheel. I've yet had to replace a rotor due to these symptoms. You must realize that there are many parts of a car's braking, steering, and suspension systems than can contribute to this. I have yet to see definitive proof of a warped rotor caused by instantaneous extreme braking.

And sure there are different things that can cause the steering wheel to shake, but when its strictly on braking that it shakes, its more than likely the rotors...

I wasnt comparing rotors to engine, I was saying how you CANT compare that car to the protege.... I was comparing an American manufactured car to an import, an econobox to a larger vehicle with heavier duty parts used. Just because one cars rotors were able to handle what you gave it, does not mean anothe car will be able to. The protege was designed to get you from point A to point B and make the trip fun. If you want to give it more, upgrade the parts so that they can take more.

Repeated heavy use of the brakes *WILL* cause the rotors to heat up to higher temperatures. Improper cooling WILL cause the rotors to warp. It has been a problem with rotors for a long time if you put them in conditions they were not meant to see. Such conditions can be heavy braking. I am not saying an autocross will toast your rotors, I am saying improper braking techniques and overheating rotors *may* cause the rotors to warp.....

Why are you trying to argue a known problem with commonly seen symptoms on more than one brand of car?

"Quick hard pressure braking tends to warp rotors where-as long light pressure braking keeps them more level."

"It is the pressure of the stationary brake pads against the turning rotor that creates friction and slows your car to a stop. This friction generates a significant amount of heat. If the heat that is generated by braking is not properly dissipated, the rotor may cool at an uneven rate. If a rotor does not cool down evenly it will loose its flat round shape. This is what people are referring to when they say their brakes or rotors have warped."

http://www.racepad.com/tech/bmw/about_warped_rotors/about_warped_rotors.htm

 

[kurt]

where is this place Thunderhill Raceway in Willows, CA? and how much is registration?

Try this : http://www.thunderhill.com/

As was already stated, a set of track pads (Hawk, Cobalt etc...) and new brake fluid would probably help make your track day more enjoyable. If this is your first track day, then you'll probably have an instructor and you might not wind up pushing the car that hard.

You can also run cooling ducts from your lower grill, to both front brakes with 3" dryer or ventilation ducting. I've seen it done on other cars, but not on a Pro5 so I can't give you a picture as to how it should look.

If you really want to get some new rotors, go to Autozone and pick up some cheap rotors along with some track pads. You can toss them at the end of the track day. Make sure to bed them properly when you're done installing them.

Brakes, like tires are expendable...

 

[MP3skaterNC]

My stock brakes faded very fast, and the rotors eventually warped after 20 minutes of decently agressive mountain driving. Im guessin at a road course this would happen much quicker. Get some hawk pads, and brembro blanks and you should be alright for beginner track driving.

 

[zumi]

thanks for all the input guys!

looks like I'm gonna go for the brake pads and the brake fluid. more opinions welcome, of course. if worse comes to worse, my bro-in-law (who will be an instructor there) says I can take his S4 if my brakes crap out. *grin* I'd like to learn on my own car tho, of course.

any other advice for a first-time tracker? I've also heard about changing oil, but I did that only a little over a month ago (Mobil 1 10W-30) and have a few hundred miles on it. The event is about a month from now.

 

[jaje]

yes...make sure you have fresh oil in your car before the track day and change it afterward...oil when it gets really hot doesn't lubricate as well

 

[cdglowred5]

Also I raced around summit point WV and now at Sebring here in FL. The first thing I did was upgrade to the pads jaje suggested and also used my stainless steel brake lines from my 1991 escort gt. They did fit... Also you can down shift which helps too. But then you kill aka heat up the clutch.

When you stop going around the track do not put your emergency brake on you will warp the rotors. Also let your car cool down if you are turbo the turbo timer will help out if just stock like you said let it run a little..

Have Fun

 

[charles]

Pads + bleeding with good fluid is the best advice.

Your rotors will be fine, there are no better rotors than stock ones, especially not ones that will reduce warping.

Are you going with NASA HPDE?

 

[ELEmental59437]

Your rotors will be fine, there are no better rotors than stock ones, especially not ones that will reduce warping.

So you dont believe in either cross drilled, slotted, or both being able to dissipate heat faster?