Need some sub advice

[nsxdemon]

K guys, any advice is greatly appreciated here. I'm basically building a nice SQ system for my '02 P5, but I want a fairly small box (around 1.2 cu ft would be nice).

Anyway, I've heard a million great things about EDesign subs, so I'm kinda leaning towards those.

Originally I was going to go with the DVC 12" O-series, wired to 2 ohms and power it with the Avionixx AXA 500m (500 W RMS at 2 ohms).

Well there's a chance that I might become a grader for a junior level comp sci class at my university, in addition to the lab job I'm working right now, so I'll have some extra $$. So naturally I started looking at the 12" A-series and amps to power that thing (probably the Avionixx AXT 800.2...800W RMS bridged at 4 ohms).

Since I don't want a HUGE box in my hatch, somewhere would a 12" A-series be even worth the extra money? I know that EDesign recommends a sealed box size of 0.7 to 1.2 cu ft, but will that produce good SQ or would I have to go to a vented box for that?

Also, regardless of which of these subs I choose, I'll be running at least 500W RMS, so how large of a capacitor will I need to keep my alternator alive?

Thanks in advance and sorry for flooding this thread with questions!

 

[Poseur]

I've got nearly that exact setup. LOVE the sub. sounds very nice, mixes perfectly with my infinitys, and then hits HARD.. the guys at edesigns will actually recommend close to 1.2 (atleast 1.0) As far as SQ, small sealed boxes are all about SQ. Bigger and ported ones get boomier and less accurate. The O series is designed to be their SQ woofer, and I doubt they'd let you down for thump, but ideally they need relatively large boxes (1.6ish?) Either way, keep in mind that their box sizes are for volume MINUS speaker displacement (which is a little over .1cuf if I remember correctly) I'll tack a pic of mine on. My box as per Ben's opinion is of the same volume of ED's reccomended 1.2cuf box (works out to be 1.3something) it tucks in pretty nicely. I made my box to fit in with the slope of my rear seat, and be as space-efficent as possible. Fits nice, just not finished 'cause I'm lazy.

Power-wise, I've got one of the closeout Tsunami 1100's pushing it. I broke the sub in at 4ohm setting which is 350w and then switched it over to 1ohm for 1000+ after a week. First off that week at 350 was impressive. I've had every form of kicker solobaric12 made (and a couple of comps) all with about 3-400w. Let me say that the ed blew my mind. Couldn't wait to switch it over and feel it really hit. I did, and didn't notice as big of a diff as I'd expected, but it's still rocked my standards. (granted I'm a bit timid to crank the gain up all the way as I've got toomuch power on tap so it remains at about 75%) I'd say that evne with 500w flowing to that puppy, it'll please you. I don't think throwing a bunhc more power at it'll give you a bunch more sound, but I could be wrong. Actually for my liking I'm thinking I'da been entirely satisfied with a 10a. the 12 is much more than I'll ever need and I only really crank it to pop my friends' eardrums and generally be obnoxious. After hearing it, and how hugely powerful it is, were I to do it again, I'd go with the 10 simply for the space savings. a box HALF the size would be awesome. Also, 10's are supposed to be musically a bit better matched to a car's environment as far as SQ is concerned as well (less size/quicker to respond)

Now, as for your power draw. It is quite a bit of power. Fortunately the T class amp you're looking at will draw less current than an A. I just mentioned this elsewhere, I've done nothing to beef up my electrical system yet. I've got a digital voltimeter readout mounted under my deck that's hooked up to my powerblock, and I've found that my normal engine-on voltage (regardless of lights, etc) is around 15.7 and resting voltage (just battery no engine running) is 13.5. The LOWEST I've gottne it to drop is down to 13.0v listening to extended rolling bass. From as far as I'm aware this is not yet posing a threat to anything. I am however planning on getting some form of cap setup (likely 2faradish) mostly just to try and keep things a bit more stable. I do get a fair amount of headlight dimming, which some ppl say will be aided by bigger grounding and alternater wires. Some say it doesn't do squat. Either way, it's not a bad idea and I'll do it eventually anyway. Grounding kits are all the rage for hop-up performance gain kinda stuff.

 

[nsxdemon]

Hey Poseur, I was also looking at the Tsunami DB1100 for the O-series sub (would've been a perfect fit), but it didn't seem like a good match with the A-series: too little power at 4 ohms, too much at 1 ohm (I was reading the second number as the max/peak rating for the sub)

BUT, the specs on the 10" A-series (I'm looking at that now, thanks to you!) say that the recommended power ratings are between 650W and 1300W. Is that 1300W supposed to be RMS or peak (I'm hoping it's RMS)

Anyway, if it can take 1300W RMS, then hell yea I'm going with the Tsunami amp. So anyway, how does this set up sound to you:

- EDesign e10A.22 wired to 1 ohm, in a 0.5 cu ft box
- Tsunami DB1100 running at 1100W at 1 ohm
- No capacitor (until my funds build up again!)

Nways, thanks for the advice

 

[Poseur]

Umm, well look at the power rating for the box they recommend, and it's 1000. I'm really not too sure, perhaps if you run in a smaller box you can push more, but I'm just content to leave my amp dialed back a bit. It's not like you HAVE to run full power. I've been getting by fine. Granted it is a bit tricky trying to get tme most out of it and not over-juice the speaker (hard to know when it's gonna blow) Give ED a call, and talk to them. They're SUPER knowledgeable guys. Also check out the ED thread on whatever audio forum it is. (they've got a link to it on their website) Lots of knowledgeable ppl in there.

That setup sounds pretty good. I've honestly got no REAL idea if the 10 will be as good, but one can only assume... Like I said, mine's byfar WAY toomuch. I leave my sub-out setting on my deck pretty low most of the time. One good thing... I noticed you're running a factory deck, hence no sub-out control on the deck. That 1100 comes with a remote gain, so you've got a good use for it. Hook it up, You'll very likely use it alot. with thatmuch power on tap, you can't stomach it very well most of the time if you're driving any kind of distance, but then of course you've got to abuse it every now and then.

 

[got wake?]

just to give you an idea on how enclosure size effects power handling, check this out:
http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/brahma_power_handling.htm

 

[pr5owner]

you can go with a really long but narrow box like mine and yo will still have lots of trunk space

my subs are really cheap but they sound pretty good, ive heard that Sony subs don't take very much space but they sound like crap or at least the older ones, not too sure about their new pentagon ones

 

[nsxdemon]

pr5owner....that's a great idea and I would probably go with that, but I'm a road biker so my bike has to go somewhere! What I was thinking of would be a nice box that could be tucked into the right side of the trunk. It would be awesome if I could build my own fiberglass enclosure, like hihoslva did, but I'm not sure I'll have that kind of time.

But if someone is willing to help me out to build it I'll gladly pay them!

Nyways, thanks for the advice guys. I emailed EDesign late last night so they'll probably get back to me on Monday.

 

[Poseur]

Dude, have you checked the ED forum out yet?
http://forum.soundillusions.net/forumdisplay.php?f=20
Seriously helpful info in there.
And side note, I know, but what you ride? I've got a Alu Giant TCR frame built up with Campy Veloce for now (I just got into road last year when the guys at the shop forced me into it. Got the frame given to me, so I couldn't complain) The veloce was to keep $ down and stay campy...

That said... oh c'mon you KNOW you need a rack on that puppy. I've had yak racks on any car I've ever had. more or less a vital tool to me anymore. Granted everything's out in the elements, but there's always cargo boxes. FTR with that sub box I have, I can fit two front wheels inside and then assorted other helmets and gear around that.

 

[nsxdemon]

I'm riding a Raleigh R700 (aluminum frame) with Ultegra comps and Rolf Sestriere wheels. I know I know, it's not Campy, but that bike was what I could afford at the time (4 years ago). Within the next year I'm hoping to build up my own ride tho. Something like a Look carbon frame, *maybe* Record comps if money allows, and a nice set of rims (undecided on them right now). That'll set me back at least $2500 if I use mail-order parts and build it myself. So between that and the stereo stuff for the car, I'm gonna have a blast eating canned beans to save money!

Also, ED got back to me and they said that they're out of stock of the Tsunami DB1100, so now they only exist used. Also, since the AXT800.2 draws about 100 amps (according to the email) they suggest upgrading the alternator and battery before getting a cap. Yay, more $$$ I need to spend to get a nice bass bump in the car.

So I'll be thinking things over for a while.

 

[servoeyes]

You can always look at other amps, too. Xtant, JL, Kicker, Alpine, US acoustics, and others. If you want something creepy, and good check this out.

 

[got wake?]

You can always look at other amps, too. Xtant, JL, Kicker, Alpine, US acoustics, and others. If you want something creepy, and good check this out.

too bad soundstream quality has gone downhill so much they used to be some of the best, now they are mediocre at best i've heard of a ton of problems with the tarantula's and the divincis have serious issues:mad:

 

[Poseur]

You can get a record seutp with a carbon frame for $2500??? damn that's pretty good. With wheels, I've yet to see any prebuilts that're better in any way than a simple set of campy (or king or Amer classic or something) hubs laced to Mavic Open pro's. I built up record hubs with revolution spokes straight 28 front 3xdrive/ radial nondrive 32h rear that're lighter than ksyriums.... Butyea, damn under3 for record and carbon blows my mind. Take a gander at the TCR carbons. odd with the compact sizing, but DAMn they ride sweet...

For audio stuff, yea Just look for something "D" or "t" class. these amps will draw less current to make the same power. the sacrifice is a bit of SQ, but it's almost impossible to notice in subs. Keep A or ab for your front speakers, though. And with the dimming thing. I'm pulling ALOT of juice, and while it does dim my lights, etc, any alternator options for our cars are kinda iffy, definately expensive, and potentially problematic unless you can get it done absolutely right which means expensive (think you'll end up riding tiagra on that new bike) I'd try it and see how it wors. I've yet to have probs. Might just do the cap to stabilize things.

Honestly, though I really don' think huge power and corresponding subs are all that necessary. I just kinda got swept up and went overboard. When I was running my 12a at 350w for break-in it was MORE than enough bass, and sounded VERY nice.

 

[nsxdemon]

yuck!! i don't want tiagra comps on ANY bike of mine!! ugh...no way

sorry to get your hopes up poseur...i was looking at record w/ some aluminum frame, my mistake! I think that a carbon frame would run me over $3000...man i wish i could grab carbon and record for <$2500. I'm replacing my left shifter tomorrow...after four years it just crapped out on my and some internals basically snapped, so now I'll have a 2003 ultegra left shifter with a 1999 ultegra right shifter...hahah

well back to the thread...it seems like the more time i spend looking at amps, the more options i find and the further away i get from a solid choice. Here's some stuff I found up to now:

<li><a href="http://www.avionixxusa.com/ep/axt_8002.htm" target="new">Avionixx AXT 800.2</a> (800W x 1 at 4 ohms bridged)</li>
<li><a href="http://www.audiobahninc.com/products/AMPS/highCurrent.html" target="new">Audiobahn A275HCT</a> (600W x 1 at 1 ohm)</li>
<li><a href="http://www.audiobahninc.com/products/AMPS/classD.html" target="new">Audiobahn A8001DT</a> (800W x 1 at 1 ohm)</li>

Just a preliminary list I pulled together, I'll be checking out some more amps in teh next day or two.

I'm kinda leaning towards the high-current Audiobahn A275HCT, except I KNOW that'll pull a lot from the alternator, so I might just stick with something else. I've got a friend who *might* be able to hook me up with some cheap Audiobahn equipment, so that's why i'm leaning that way right now.

 

[servoeyes]

You won't find any support from me for Audiobahn.

The fact that you have to know somone to get it cheap when it's not as high quality as other brands just kinda cheeses me, seen? But that's personal opinion. If it works for you, and it's a good price, then do that. I mean...you could do worse...it could be Sony!

Those Avionixx class Ts are funky. Read up on them a bit, more. Also...check out Tru (who eD are now carrying) and check out sounddomain.com. They carry a whole bunch of brands and are an authorized vendor for every one of 'em. They have this sweet deal. It's an Xtant amp that had reliability problems, which have supposedly been fixed - so heads up. It's been around a little while so now it's on close out. 250$ for 600W @ 2ohms. You can't find a Kicker or even a US acoustics on sale at sounddomain that'll give you that much power for that price. Check out the other amps, there though. They'll give you a good idea of what to look for. Avoid Sony, obviously, but they also carry Hifonics, MTX, Kicker, Polk and Phoenix Gold.

 

[Poseur]

On the bike side of things... 4yrs form an ultegra is DAMN good. usually we see them strip out in 1-2. Crappy thing is I've yet to find a way to rebuild them. shimano kinda "booby-traps" them. I manage a shop, BTW, so if you ever need things, give me a shout, and I'll try to hook you up. And yea, the tiagra ref was jsut to get across the point of how spendy the alt setup could get. I actualyl tun a tiagra RD on my Slalombike just because I bust them jumping/ grinding, etc. but that's about it.

As for sub amps. I really hate to say it, but in a sub amp you just want something that puts out reasonable power, and in your case, doesn't draw too much current to do it. I've a pretty hard time trying to discern the audible diff between 2 different decent amps of similar output when running a sub. I know this is kinda counterintuitive here, but you can fret it a bunch, or you can just find something that seems about right, then jsut get it and then you'll be listening to music and enjoying it sooner. That Xtant that Servo sniffed out looks like a pretty damn good deal. I'd be all over that one.

Of course this brings up another discussion about Ohm ratings. The 10 or 12a are sold with dual 2ohm coils meaning you can run them at either 1ohm in parallel or 4 in series. That amp is pushing best power at 2 meaning you'd need somehting with a single 2ohm coil or a dual 4ohm running paralell in order to get the proper impedance. So this being the case, my current idea's to go 10o.44 (the . is for coil ratings with ED so a 10a.22 means dual2's and then the ones that are like a 10k.14 means single 4ohm) Then pick up that extant, and your power's balanced out pretty nicely...