Need some opinions/advice on my aftermarket setup for my 2003 P5

[redcalimp5]

Hi! I'm new to the boards, and also new to my 2003 P5.

I plan to have my own aftermarket sound system installed in my recently purchased P5, but I've got a concern with the amount of space my subwoofer is going to take up. I've already got the "stock" sub speaker in the tire well in the back, but it doesn't provide me anywear NEAR the bass affect that I'm looking for.

Here's my setup:

Front and (possibly) rear speakers:

1 pair of Crystal SSCS6 6 1/2" components, brand new
1 used pair of Focal HC1 coaxials (still not sure if I'm going to even put these in the rear for rearfill yet)


I have 3 amps that I am going to choose one of to run my setup:

1. JL Audio 450/4 - Ch 1&2: 150X2 Ch 3&4: 75X2 RMS Used, in good shape.
2: Alpine MRD -F752 5 channel Tripath Class T - Ch 1-4: 100X4 + 350X1 Ch 5 RMS Used in a show car, GREAT shape.
3. Soundstream Reference 644S 4 channel: 100X4 RMS This amp is brand new.


I have a 12" Alpine SWS 1222 sub rated at 300W RMS. It is in a sealed, carpeted box. Right now it is being powered by a Fosgate 2 channel P3002 75X2 RMS. I'm not sure I want to have a huge 12" sub in the hatcback of my P5, so I'm trying to explore other options for bass. I LOVE having that "thump" in my chest coming through my seat from my 12 when I'm playing my music, but I don't want to sacrifice taking up half of my backspace.


I've been reading over some of the car audio posts, and I'm considering just ditching my sub, and getting a good pair of midbass-only 6 1/2" woofers and mounting them in the rear doors, with my Crystal components up front. From what I've heard lately from people who own Crystal components, they put out outstanding misbass. If I go this rout, I would most likely run both pairs off of the JL 450/4. I'm just not sure if the Crystal components and the rear midbas woofers will satisfy my need for bottom end, even amped at 150X2 and the midbass woofers amped at 75X2.


If I decide to keep the 12" sub and lose almost half of my hatchback space in the rear, I will most likely run the 5 channel Alpine 752.


The last scenario I was considering would be to connect channels 1 and 2 of the Soundstream 644S to the Crystal components, and then bridge channels 3 and 4 (300X1 bridged) to the sub, and elimate rearfill speakers altogether.


My P5 is mostly my daily driver car, but occasionally I'll take my wife and two kids places in it, so I don't really want a blistering, competition-sized and sounding setup.....just one that when I play my music (mostly rock, metal, classic rock, techno, very little rap) it gets reasonably loud, and REALLY clear.

Sorry this is so long of a post. If you've taken the time to read through it, could you please post your opinions on what setup might work best for my needs? As I said, I don't compete in SQL competitions, I just want something that I can REALLY rock to when I'm cruisin' into and from work. Any of your opinions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[redcalimp5]

Man, no opinions, eh? I'm thinking more and more about just going with the 6.5 in midbass woofers in the rear doors, and eliminating my sub altogether.

I guess I'll just have to try it and see if that's going to be enough bass response for me.

 

[FoxPro5]

Forget about the rear "fill"...it's more like rear distraction.

Those Crystal mids might have decent thump, but they will not be anything like having a sub. Think about it, even if you deaden the hell out of the doors and run 2-3 times the rated power to them AND cross them at like 63hz or so, you are still missing all that sub bass that the system really needs. My bet is that it will sound ok tonality wise, but will still be anemic and thin. The only thing you can do is try, however.

Your other option is to get bigger midbass drivers with greater xmax...like 7's or 8's and do some door modification. You would have some serious thump then. But it will not be able to replace a sub....unless of course you run them full range or cross them very low.

Is that Alpine class T really rated at 100x4 + 350x1 @ 4 ohms?????? That's one hell of a 5 channel man. I say bridge that bad boy to the fronts and do something like this with your sub: http://chris.pfharlock.com/glass/index.htm

 

[redcalimp5]

Forget about the rear "fill"...it's more like rear distraction.


Those Crystal mids might have decent thump, but they will not be anything like having a sub. Think about it, even if you deaden the hell out of the doors and run 2-3 times the rated power to them AND cross them at like 63hz or so, you are still missing all that sub bass that the system really needs. My bet is that it will sound ok tonality wise, but will still be anemic and thin. The only thing you can do is try, however.

Your other option is to get bigger midbass drivers with greater xmax...like 7's or 8's and do some door modification. You would have some serious thump then. But it will not be able to replace a sub....unless of course you run them full range or cross them very low.

Is that Alpine class T really rated at 100x4 + 350x1 @ 4 ohms?????? That's one hell of a 5 channel man. I say bridge that bad boy to the fronts and do something like this with your sub: http://chris.pfharlock.com/glass/index.htm

Thanks for the response, FoxPro5!

Yeah, I'm probably gonna go without the rearfill speakers. I've heard soo many opinions back and forth about it, and it's a very heavily debated subject in the car audio world (almost as much as capacitors!). If I've got a good set of Crystal components up front with at least 100-150W RMS or more a side, I don't really think I'll even miss rearfill speakers.

I definitely understand that you're talking about when you mention that I'd be missing out on the true bottom end of a sub if I was to get good midbass drivers instead of a sub. I LOVE the whole concept and end result of how that custom enclosure looks in that how-to link you posted, but unfortunately, I don't believe my wife will let me hack up the back end of my(our) car like that.

With that in mind, I'm thinking I'll just keep my 12" sub in my sealed box in the rear hatch, and have it so that I can quick-disconnect the speaker wires from the box and remove the entire enclosure without it being a hassle if I need to haul things. I was thinking maybe I could install a set of 4 small spacer tabs on the surface in the rear to keep my sub enclosure from sliding all around during driving.

I 'm not so sure I'm even going to deaden my doors where the Crystals are going.....I personally don't feel like doing it myself, and I've asked a couple of shops around here locally, and they're telling me it's going to cost $300 installed to do my front doors. I honeslty don't feel comfortable at all taking my car apart to do any deadening, wiring, or installation. That T class amp will do 200X2 4ohms bridged @12V, so I'm not even sure that my Crystals will handle that much RMS power. I know their specs say 200W Peak power. Their recommended RMS is 100W, that's why I was thinking that my JL 450/4 would be good for them....unfortunately, if I run the front two channels of the Jl to the Crystals, and bridge the rear channels for my 12, it would only be getting 150W RMS. I listen to mostly metal, rock, and pretty much everything but country, so that might actually be the best setup for what I'm trying to do. I'm not a guy that likes to bang 2 or 3 12's with 1000W a piece, but I do like a strong and tight bass response with my music.

Here's a great site that shows the basics of that Class T Alpine amp. It truly is a monster! (rockon)

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRD-F752/

 

[FoxPro5]

Well even if you did run the rear fill, the object (in a correctly set up audio system anyway) would be NOT to hear them. In other words, you don't want to be able to locate them. I spend hours tweaking my system to get it sound right and there is only one speaker physically behind me...and the sound it produces is nondirectional. Now things are different if you are a world class installer and can trick the ear with rear speakers in place.

The fiberglass job would NOT involve any hacking, that's the great thing. It's easier than you think too. It does cost money (figure $150 or so all said and done) and takes time, but it can be done with really great results. I'm in the process of fabing kicks in my Pro5 at the moment...I would have never thought when I first started that I would be doing this crazy s***!!

Deaden the doors! It's almost a must. I've taken my front doors apart so many times I can do in now drunk, blindfolded, and with one arm! Many of us here have done it and we can help you. Again, it does take time and money, but it maybe the one thing that makes or breaks your system! ONLY after you've significantly deadened and sealed the doors will you even approach getting a decent thump out of a 6.5" midbass.

Ok, that amp is rare if Just On More Amp on ebay is selling it. I recognize the table cloth! And I'm totally putting it in my Favorite ebay searches too....that has some serious balls....I don't think the Memphis Belle can put out that much power.

That is not TOO much power. Any well built comp set can handle plenty of power. If you were to actually measure how much power they got anyway, you'd probably cry. I've had 300w per side on passive comp sets and they did great.

But if you have the 450/4 might as well start with that. 150w to the sub is not huge, but it might surprise you. The thing about the JL "/" series is that you don't get any additional power if you drop the impedance. Not exactly ideal if you end up with a 2 ohm load on the sub.

As far as bass is concerned, you might also want to consider a pair of 8's or a single 10" if space is concerned.

 

[redcalimp5]

Well even if you did run the rear fill, the object (in a correctly set up audio system anyway) would be NOT to hear them. In other words, you don't want to be able to locate them. I spend hours tweaking my system to get it sound right and there is only one speaker physically behind me...and the sound it produces is nondirectional. Now things are different if you are a world class installer and can trick the ear with rear speakers in place.

The fiberglass job would NOT involve any hacking, that's the great thing. It's easier than you think too. It does cost money (figure $150 or so all said and done) and takes time, but it can be done with really great results. I'm in the process of fabing kicks in my Pro5 at the moment...I would have never thought when I first started that I would be doing this crazy s***!!

Deaden the doors! It's almost a must. I've taken my front doors apart so many times I can do in now drunk, blindfolded, and with one arm! Many of us here have done it and we can help you. Again, it does take time and money, but it maybe the one thing that makes or breaks your system! ONLY after you've significantly deadened and sealed the doors will you even approach getting a decent thump out of a 6.5" midbass.

Ok, that amp is rare if Just On More Amp on ebay is selling it. I recognize the table cloth! And I'm totally putting it in my Favorite ebay searches too....that has some serious balls....I don't think the Memphis Belle can put out that much power.

That is not TOO much power. Any well built comp set can handle plenty of power. If you were to actually measure how much power they got anyway, you'd probably cry. I've had 300w per side on passive comp sets and they did great.

But if you have the 450/4 might as well start with that. 150w to the sub is not huge, but it might surprise you. The thing about the JL "/" series is that you don't get any additional power if you drop the impedance. Not exactly ideal if you end up with a 2 ohm load on the sub.

As far as bass is concerned, you might also want to consider a pair of 8's or a single 10" if space is concerned.

Yeah, after all that you've said, I might actually just go with the 450/4. It should give me plenty of power to the components, and a sufficient amount of power to the sub.

So that means that I've got that Alpine 5 channel for sale, and now I've also got a JL 300/4 used four channel amp for sale. I guess it's time to start a "For Sale" thread in the appropriate section!

 

[FoxPro5]

Yeah, after all that you've said, I might actually just go with the 450/4. It should give me plenty of power to the components, and a sufficient amount of power to the sub.

So that means that I've got that Alpine 5 channel for sale, and now I've also got a JL 300/4 used four channel amp for sale. I guess it's time to start a "For Sale" thread in the appropriate section!

Please PM me your price and pictures of that Alpine.