Need new plugs/wires - any suggestions?
- Thread starter p5_jeff
- Start date
Magnecor spark plug wires. Go to: http://www.magnecor.com
I use them myself. They won't give you any more power or performance compared with OEM but they'll last a lot longer since they use wire rather than carbon track conductors.
I use them myself. They won't give you any more power or performance compared with OEM but they'll last a lot longer since they use wire rather than carbon track conductors.
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- -- 03 P5 / 23 CX-5 --
Long Reach NGK ZFR5E-11s, 1.8 coilpack upgrade & NGK 1.8 wires-ZX2. Coils = 40.00 from napaonline.com, NGK wires = 36.00 from sparkplug.com, about 10.00 for set of plugs from anywhere.......
The Short Bus
Member
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- 2003 P5
What's the advantage with the upgrades?i12drivemyMP5 said:
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- -- 03 P5 / 23 CX-5 --
nothing....i was just making it all up, you caught me, busted, burn. I musta got caught up in the sensationalistic placebo effect of smoother idling, noticeable improvement in revving & even small bump in mpg(after the plugs had been done for a while). Hell, I even replaced functioning parts before worn so it has to be bulls***. I suggest no one fall for it. BTW, what about it was older style? Having 4 plug wires instead of 2? Ya know, that's what I asked the door-to-door spark plug/coil salesman & he assured me this was cutting edge technology & he could in no way sell me 4 single coils without any wires at all without a special government permit.
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Well, I never argue with a man's butt dyno results. Since you obtained all those wonderful effects by replacing that crappy, newer OEM system with an older but better (smoother idle, noticeable improvement in revving and even a small improvement in fuel mileage) OEM system, you obviously made the right choice.
I guess mazda's idea that reducing the number of spark plug wires (2-wires, 2-coilpacks in the FS-DE engine) and even getting rid of wires completely by replacing them with 4-coilovers for better performance and reliability, as in the case of the Mazda3, is all wrong and just another example of Mazda's poor engineering practices and their desire to give us a less than optimally performing car.
However, as long as we have enterprising tuners on the forum second-guessing the Mazda engineers, we can all follow their example and end up with better cars than the factory could ever produce.
I guess mazda's idea that reducing the number of spark plug wires (2-wires, 2-coilpacks in the FS-DE engine) and even getting rid of wires completely by replacing them with 4-coilovers for better performance and reliability, as in the case of the Mazda3, is all wrong and just another example of Mazda's poor engineering practices and their desire to give us a less than optimally performing car.
However, as long as we have enterprising tuners on the forum second-guessing the Mazda engineers, we can all follow their example and end up with better cars than the factory could ever produce.
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The 1.8 setup has been discussed on the forums. He isn't making it up. It is pretty expensive now compared to what it used to be though. I just picked up some NGK performance wires and NGK V-Power plugs myself.
Here is a link to one of the discussions on the 1.8 setup: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123650373
Here is a link to one of the discussions on the 1.8 setup: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123650373
falsedawn said:
I think you're exactly right. As long as the OEM spark plug wires are functioning correctly, replacement with "high performance" spark plug wires should produce no change in performance, idle smoothness or fuel mileage. The problem with OEM wires, because of their carbon core conductors, is that their resistance increases with age. The FSM specifies the range of acceptable resistance in each wire which, if exceeded, mandates replacement. In the FS-DE engine, the no.3 lead, the short one, must be in the range of 1.9-4.0 kilohms and the longer no.1 lead must be between 5.6-12.1 kilohms as measured with a DVM. If these resistance limits are exceeded, the spark energy delivered to the plug electrodes will be less than the designed for value and operation will start to be affected. I checked my wires at 30,000 miles and found both to be near their resistance limit. I selected Magnecor wires as a replacement (NGK does not make replacement high performance wires for the FS-DE engine) because their wire conductors allow long life without undue resistance buildup. This helps to mitigate their high initial cost. They have lower resistance than OEM, are red in color, look sexy and are very visually appealing, but after installing them, I noticed absolutely no differeence in performance in any driving mode. Unfortunate, but true. While it's true that the Magnecors probably deliver more spark energy to the plug electrodes than do the OEMs, beyond the level of voltage necessary to fully ignite and burn the mixture, any additional voltage is wasted.
However, when I switched from the OEM spark plugs to the extended reach NGK ZFR5F-11 types, I did find a small, but noticeable, increase in performance including somewhat faster acceleration, the ability to rev more freely and somewhat smoother idling.
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- -- 03 P5 / 23 CX-5 --
Damn, OK, I'll fess up. I just wanted the pretty blue wires since red would be out of place in the motif under the hood.....all scientificness aside, don't we here in the good ole US of A regularly get watered down detuned versions of all kinda cars that many automakers in their infinite "wisdom" send out & sell that are less than the pinnacle of scientific achievement in order to comply with whatever bulls*** legislation is in place or to "protect" the American consumer from themselves & last but not least, TO MAKE MONEY? What did the comparative analysis study reveal about the amount of spark degredation over time between 4 wire, 2 wire setups using both wire types & also no wire setups? Was the choice based upon production costs or the need to replace parts to keep revenue flowing? Somehow I just don't think that lifelong infinite use from a single purchase is the engineering goal so yeah, I think that all kind of small improvements can be made to squeeze more life & zest outta of what is sold is possible. I just don't think we are getting all the performance, economy, reliability, efficiency & longevity that is possible. Most things can be improved upon. The results I spoke of were after the plugs had been installed for a couple of months so seperate improvements were noticed. It takes noticeably less gas pedal to achieve the same speed almost like you were driving with 4 people in it all the time before & now they got out or like when it's real cold & the car feels more frisky due to the cold air. If I had access,time & cash to dyno every change I have made then I guess I'd have something more scientific to present. 2 out of 3 isn't bad though. Also noticing about 60 miles more from a tank of gas averaged out over the 8-10 used over the last couple of months with same weather, driving habits & gas formulation. Call it what you will.
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NGK wire sets are not carbon core. Perhaps calling them "performance" is misleading but I couldn't remember what NGK called them on the box.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/wire_sets/wiresets.asp
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/wire_sets/wiresets.asp
i12drivemyMP5 said:
Actually, I think you and me are in basic agreement here. I also think that many small, and sometimes not so small, improvements can be made to the basic product resulting in better performance, economy, reliability, efficiency and longevity, as you state. An inspection of the list of mods I've done to my car certainly would indicate my own feelings here. Obviously, production costs, the typical customer base to which the car is marketed and government regulations specifying emission and safety standards play a major role in determining the way in which our cars come equipped from the factory. A case in point is the OEM spark plug wires for the FS-DE; low first cost but adequate to do the job even though they will ultimately have to be replaced to maintain rated performance.
Along the same lines, TheMAN was the first to inform us that the FS-DE engine could benefit from extended reach plugs (they are OEM in the 1.6L 3rd gen engines) and that certain equivalent JDM models were using them. If you look at TheMAN's article, he provides a number of references suggesting that the benefits obtained are due to the fact that the extended nose EFFECTIVELY advances the ignition timing by ~ 2 degrees since the electrodes are placed closer to the center of the fuel charge. A further suggestion was then made that, consequently, 89 octane (plus) fuel should be used with these plugs to prevent detonation under certain circumstances and to take full advantage of their benefits. This in fact is what I'm doing, but the US-influenced requirement that our cars use 87 octane fuel may, at the same time, have mandated the use of non-extended nose spark plugs in our USDM cars.
As to studies dealing with the comparative analysis of performance and its degradation in 4-wire versus 2-wire versus 0-wire ignition systems, I obviously have no knowledge of the results obtained. I can only draw inferences here and assume that elimination of a wear item and potential RF interference source like a spark plug wire is a good thing in today's electronically controlled engine environment, and leads to greater reliability through the elimination of a part. At the same time, it seems to me that mounting the coil output terminal directly on the spark plug terminal yields the best and cleanest possible transmission path for the electric current used to ignite the mixture. Of course, elimination of a part also may save money, without harming performance, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I would also expect that companies who manufacture spark plug wires would also have piles of data 'proving' that their wires are superior to any OEM design and therefore promote the idea that performance demands the use of their wires, and the more the merrier.
These ideas reflect my current thinking, and of course, I could be wrong.(enguard)
bradicus18 said:
I don't know if you're referring to the FS-DE engine here or not, but the OEM wires are not NGK and are of carbon core construction. NGK makes a standard wire conductor replacement set for the FS-DE, but does not sell, in the US, the high performance Power Cables line for this engine although they are available for the 1.6L 3rd gen and the 1.8L engines. Consequently, when I replaced my wires I chose the Magnecors as being functionally equivalent to the unavailable Power Cables.
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- 03' Mazda Protege 5
Magnecor wires with E3 performance spark plugs. The spark plugs you can buy at protegegarage.com. This is the setup I am running and it runs great.
Well it isn't like it's a waste of money. The 1.8 coilpack swap still uses two coils, and 4 wires doesn't cost any more than the 2 from NGK or other wire companies.falsedawn said:
The coils do need to be replaced eventually anyway. I'd love to have 4 coils, no wires on my car :'(
