Need Help Shopping

[EvilMSP]

Hello I am planning out the stereo for my MSP and I need a little help looking for stuff. Recently I've been building/shopping for home audio stuff and I haven't looked at car stuff for a while so I'm not sure what's out there.

To put things in perspective I am more of a quality sound person. For those who care I have AV1's with Sonicaps on a 1970's Marantz 2245 Tube Amp right now...mmm I love my speakers heh. Now these are a little too laid back for me since I listen to more and more rock music thatn anything else but I'll stop talking about them before I get offtopic.

Current plans for MSP are to have a pair of components (or singles) in the doors, a good cdplayer/pre-amp, a good quality 2 channel amp and that's it. In the future I might want to add a sub but I've never seen a pre-amp that didn't have sub-out so I'm not too worried about that. I've only seen a few good pre-amps or amps so I really have no idea where to start looking.

If someone could tell me some models or atleast point me in the right direction to look I'd appreciate it. And for those people that have home systems too I like my AV1's but they are a little too laid back for me. I am going for a quality system here, not sure what my price limit is but I don't mind paying for good equipment. Also I prefer soft dome to hard dome tweeters, holding hands and long walks on the beach. (ahaha sorry j/k)

Thanks for the help!!

 

[SP33D]

do some research on DLS iridium components, a zapco amp to power them, an alpine head unit, and an alpine processor. then later on i'd suggest 1 image dynamics IDmax 12" powered by a zapco comp amp.. probably a 6.0 for the sub and a 4.0 for the components. its gonna be costly, but i dont think u can get much better for SQ. (of course everyone has their own opinions... but im pretty sure my friends are gonna get 1st place for SLAPshow in finals. 5 of them with the same brand equipment in 5 different classes. all leading their class in points right now)

 

[got wake?]

let's start with your budget. if you want the best, get brax/helix or sinfoni amps, but they are very pricey.

 

[EvilMSP]

Yeah I guess I need to mention budget before anything else. I don't mind paying a lot (that is relative of course lol) but I don't wanna go too crazy.

Hmm I guess I'd be looking in the 1000+ possibly a little more depending on what I find. And don't worry about install or box money cause I install my own stuff and my friend is a carpenter.

 

[EvilMSP]

About 1k would be good for a pair of speakers + amp + cdplayer/pre-pro right?

The speakers I was looking at were like $400 for a pair. I forget the series name but they are from the same company that makes the Tespest Sub, Adire I think is the name. My friend got an alpine CD player for like $300 that is supposed to be good.

So I guess I am going for middle quality here cause I have learned that you can spend basically infinite money on stereo's

 

[EvilMSP]

I looked to make sure and yeah they are the Adire Koda's. Hear anything good/bad about them?

 

[1sty]

I looked to make sure and yeah they are the Adire Koda's. Hear anything good/bad about them?

got wake is Adires biatch so you will hear good things about all of them from him shortly

 

[Poseur]

I'm slowly coming around to being an adire biatch here as well.. They're local for me, I went over and paid them a visit, and heard some of their subs and stuff, playe dwith new pr-release products, and in general shot shitwith the boys over there... VERY knowledgeable crew with some awesome products... I listened to some Kodas at a shop nearby up against some focals, bostons, JL's prettymuch all of the speakers I know well, and they heldup VERY well... A little more midbass, lower extension, (they were holding up down to I'd say about 50hz) and with a less-harsh tweeter, (I'm a soft tweet guy, so the metal domes of bostons/focals/highend JL's have always been my only real issue) The adire's a aluminum deposit/poly kind of jobbie that seems to sortof bridge the gap, gives some definition without being overly ringy. From a tech side, Adire REALLY prides themselves on their crossovers, they use Very nice components, Polypro Caps, and Air Core inducters, etc. in them. The mids are designed for off-axis which is perfect for door-mounting. and have TONS of excursion for a 6. (you can hear it it's awesome)

At anyrate for the money, they've bumped Boston pro's out of my personal top-spot for prefrence. But then again, prefrence... big factor, I'm sure you know that you 've really gotta Hear things for youself. I know finding a place to listen to adire's is likely gonna be tricky. but maybe someone around you has a set you can put your ears on... Get ahold of Seth, he runs Sound Foundations (a net-dealer) http://sound-foundations.us/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_23_24 And ask him, he's sold alot and know alotta helpful guys who'd Love to let you hear them. Also check caraudiotalk.com Lots of adire fans overthere.

 

[Poseur]

I would just like to add that alot of these guys in here are much more experienced than myself. Wake, and 1sty in particular, in case you don't know are Gurus, But I've been crash-coursing myself (especially after my recent run-in with eD) and have been picking up as much knowledge/experience as possible. My ear seems to generally be alright, but ultimately I'm still wet behind the ears.

 

[got wake?]

got wake is Adires biatch so you will hear good things about all of them from him shortly

sorry if i'm not running bostons or JL's(stfu)

i've heard nothing but great things about the koda components, however i have never personally heard them, so i can't really comment too much about them. i can comment on DLS iridium ultimates, since i've heard them, and now own a set that are awaiting install. absolutely awesome components.

as for good equipment that won't break your wallet, the DLS classic amps look to be high quality at a very reasonable price. if you get the CA-50, you'll have a 5 channel amp for $339. bi-amp the components with the full range channels and then leave the sub channel free for when you do decide to get a sub the DLS magnesium series components are supposed to be pretty sweet. they use the same tweeter as the lower ultimate components, which i've heard sounds really damn good. and for $219 shipped they are a sweet deal.

buy a decent HU that you like, get a decent processor and you'll be set. i would suggest looking around online for an audio control DXS, but they aren't cheap.

 

[EvilMSP]

Ah thanks everyone for the excellent info.

Wake what do you mean by bi-amping the components? I'm just not sure exactly what you mean so I don't want to assume. And that amp looks good but I may never get one, I am not sure. So I think I'd want to get a 2 channel amp for now and worry about a sub amp later.

I can power a set of components with a 2 channel amp correct? Your comments makes me think you need a 4 channel amp for some reason. Never installed components in a car before so I'm getting my stupid noob questions out of the was heh.

 

[EvilMSP]

After looking at the stats of that amp it looks really sweet . 50 x 4 AND a 170 Sub channel is sexy.

Btw how much are the Iridiums you mentioned cause I have tried to find a price on them and have failed.

Also I am used to buying Pre-pro and amps but it seems like you have a Cd player, then that 4x processor thing, then amps etc. Arn't there good Players that focus on quality (the ones without amp's?) I'll have to find out the product number of my friends Alpine that is like that.

 

[EvilMSP]

Also I've been searching for HU's and haven't found much .

I don't care about all the fancy options that I'll never use or little light shows that go on as a CD plays all I care about is the quality of the CD-Player and the Sound it puts out, thats it. Can you point me in the right direction to look for that too please? I've looked at Crutchfield.com for far to long heh.

 

[got wake?]

Ah thanks everyone for the excellent info.

Wake what do you mean by bi-amping the components? I'm just not sure exactly what you mean so I don't want to assume. And that amp looks good but I may never get one, I am not sure. So I think I'd want to get a 2 channel amp for now and worry about a sub amp later.

I can power a set of components with a 2 channel amp correct? Your comments makes me think you need a 4 channel amp for some reason. Never installed components in a car before so I'm getting my stupid noob questions out of the was heh.

bi-amping the components is the best way to really control them, and not have to worry about discoloring the sound through the passive x-overs (boxes that come with the components that have an input and an woofer/mid output and a tweeter output). passive x-overs rely on capacitors, resistors, and coils to seperate the frequencies and present the proper load on the amp. when you bi-amp them, you bypass the need for the passives. using an active x-over before an amp, you split up the frequencies you want to go to each driver. take my 4XS that i had. it would take one set of RCAs and split them into 4 sets with specific x-over points. one set of output for the subs, one for the mid-bass, one for the mid-ranges, and one for the tweeters. i could change out the chips on the circuit board to adjust the x-over frequencies. it also had gain adjustment on the x-over, so i never had to mess with the ones on the amps.

you can easily run a set of components off a 2 channel amp, however after going from passive x-overs to active, i will probably never use passives in my car again. you are limited when you use the passive x-overs, and being that you like high quality sound, bi-amping the components will give you more adjustment to tailor the sound to your liking and since you weren't planning on using a sub at first, it will also give you more mid-bass and will let you blend the mid and tweeters better.

 

[got wake?]

After looking at the stats of that amp it looks really sweet . 50 x 4 AND a 170 Sub channel is sexy.

Btw how much are the Iridiums you mentioned cause I have tried to find a price on them and have failed.

Also I am used to buying Pre-pro and amps but it seems like you have a Cd player, then that 4x processor thing, then amps etc. Arn't there good Players that focus on quality (the ones without amp's?) I'll have to find out the product number of my friends Alpine that is like that.

iridium prices:
6.2 $609
6.3 $759
8.2 $799
8.3 $889

the 6.5's are better for mid-bass than the 8's, from what everyone that has tried them has told me.


my old system, the one in my sig, went from the CD player to a clarion processor, to an audio control 4XS active x-over, then to the amps. after that i changed it out to going from my CD player to a line driver, then to a 30 band EQ, then to the 4XS, then either to the full range amps or to the bass cube, then from the bass cube to my sub amp.

in my new truck i'll be going from my CD player to an alpine PXA-H701 processor which has a built in EQ, x-over, time alignment, 5.1 surround sound processor, and some other sweet features, then to the amps.


the downside to bi-amping components is that you need an external x-over, since most HU's, and many processors do not allow for seperate tweeters and mid-range outputs. this pioneer in dash unit does, and would fill the extra hole in your dash pretty well.

 

[EvilMSP]

Ahhh I totally get what you are saying now, it has clicked . Ok yeah I've heard a lot about active cross-overs from some Home Audio friends of mine. I see how awsome they are but I think that is like one level to high for me. I think that will punch the price up farther than I want to go also.

For now I think I am totally happy with passive (have yet to hear an active in person.)

Hmm so I guess that would leave me with like 2 options. Either go with a 4-5 channel amp like you said so I can use an active crossover for the speakers OR do a 2 channel amp and just use the passive that comes with it.

After looking at you sig for a while and searching for components it seems like the active crossover system is more than I would like to spend.

Also that head unit you linked too is just the second part correct? It's just a processor and not a CD Player? Cause if that's the case I think it's too much .

I think I'd rather spend my money on "high quality" Cdplayer/speakers/amp then spread it too thin on so many components. But tell me if you think I've got it all wrong

 

[sndsgood]

maybe i'm a little confused, but you talk about high end sound but say your not looking for a subwoofer. thast like saying you want to race cars but intend on buying a car with no wheels. you just cant have an accurate system without a sub, even if your get your componet set playing down to 50hz.

as far as active versus passive crossovers. its a personal opinion. you can have a phenomenal sound with either way. active can take allot more work to get a setup that has a good degree of variations hooked into it. but offers you allot more control. a quality passive crossover from a quality company is a cheaper solution and the crossover is specifically tailored to that set of speakers, so you wont nessicarily gain much going active. i'd tend to lean towards active if i was piecing together a componet set up front. with passive i'd go with a 4 channel and bi-amp the componet set. so you need to look for a componet set that is bi-amplible. this just means the crossover have imputs for two channels instead of one. so now you can adjust the volume to the tweeter and to the mid. this just gives you more control.


from what your budget is looking at your looking for mid-range. i could price out several high end speaker componet sets for you but just the componets would put u over your budget, same goes for the headunit, a high end quality headunit will run you in the 500-1000$ range quite easily. and no high end system will have any speakers being ran off of the headunits power. that would be like trying to cut your lawn with a weedeater. leave the big stuff to the amps and forget about the headunits power if u want a somewhat high end system. if your wanting to keep costs down, look for a high powered 5 channel amp. this will keep u from buying more amps down the line. and figure in your budget for a subwoofer.

 

[Poseur]

For high quality HU's, look at Eclipse, Alpine, Premier, Nakamichi. Especially Eclipse and Nak if you don't like flashy graphics.. Just about everything has some form of built in amplification anymore, especially if you're not at the supreme high end of the spectrum, bu don't let that dissuade you. Also if you haven't heard of time alignment, That's a spiffy little trick where your HU will digitally delay the sounds going to a couple of speakers, so you can have the sounds show up at your ears at the same time. Not entirely necessary, but it is a nice little soundshaping toy.

AS far as speakers go, I'd agree with you that staying active is a good thing. Just go out and try to listen to as many speakers as you can. There's plenty of companies out there that've got some very nice crossovers, and some Sweet speakers. IF you decide to go active lateron, you can always startout by simply pulling your passive out, and going from there. I'm currently running a pieced-together half-active setup running Just off of my deck, The eclipse has a built in 3-way crossover setup. but it only has high/mid/bass (4 would be optimal, highs/mid/midbass/bass)

As far as an amp, I'd look into getting a 4channel for your fronts simply because it leaves you with alot of options. You can push LOTS of power Bridging it to 2channels, and then eventually bi-amp if you feel the need.

 

[got wake?]

if you are going with passives, spend your money on a high quality set of components, since much of what you are paying for are the passive x-overs. amp the hell out of them. 100x2 minimum. you could also look into 3 channel amps, but given your budget, a good quality 2 channel amp and nice components are going to be plenty.

 

[EvilMSP]

Sndsgood - I never planned on using the Player's wattage I know that is retarded. Also you really don't have to have a sub to have a good system. That is more of an opinion than a necesity, it all depends on the music you listen to. Like my setup is just a pair of moded AV1's and the sounds is incredible. Would it be more effecient at low bass if I had a sub yes but do I need it, not at all.