MSP Sub Settings

[servoeyes]

So the sub in my "black beauty" is irking me...I was wondering where my bass went, the past couple of days. Just went through everything you guys suggested (before checking the forums...damn the engineer in me) short of checking for loose connections (gonna do that tomorrow). If that doesn't solve the problem, then I'd like to know what to use for settings after getting it fixed at my dealership. The key things are the Bass Freq, Bass Level, Bass Expansion, and NF level I would assume. Should I just use the stock settings on all the bass freq. and just add mids and highs to taste? I tend to listen to the system fairly loud (20-28), so I don't want to blow this thing again. I know, I'm gonna go deaf...but it's only above 25 when the windows are down and I'm doing 80 and trying to sing along to Audioslave.

 

[1sty]

Welcome to the forum servoeyes!(hi)
Did you hold AM for 5 seconds?
That Enables the subwoofer output.

Some people have been smoking the subwoofer, its only a 8", when you hear distortion thats bad !

Bass freuency settint- doesn't matter
Bass level - 0, always never touch it! Mids and highs also to 0
NF level, where ever you like it for that song, thats what its there for to raise and lower the volume of the sub independatly.
Bass expansion - Off

 

[Notorious]

Here is a potentially stupid question.

What is the bass expansion?

 

[1sty]

Boost bass output by 20% AKA distortion!

 

[servoeyes]

HMM...

thanks 1st...I tried everything before, including the NF on/off. Nothing doing. Still have to check the sub tonight and see if the clips came loose or something...I drive on lots of bumpy roads. If that doesn't work then back to modern mazda I go to get it fixed-up! Maybe I'll do my scheduled check-up and turn down the alarm when I have that done, too. (hump)

Your settings sound almost like the stock ones that came with the car (i have a little piece of paper that tells me those) You sure that you should keep mids and highs flat, though? It just sounds too...well...flat. Now, I'm not saying crank it up to +7 just a +1 or +2 to give some kind of curve with clear highs and, with the mids, coax a of little of the deeper freq's out of the other speakers to compensate for/compliment the tight bass/not boom of the 8" sub.

 

[1sty]

Bossting with mid, highs or bass is just adding distortion and cuasing things to break, thats why subs are blowing, people don't seem to know what distortion sounds like.
Never use a treble, bass, or mid adjustment on a head unit unless it is a full parametric EQ and ungodly clean. Kenwoods are not.

 

[servoeyes]

a-buh?

Now I'm a little confused...the NF out has a filter control on it that can be set from the head unit. Shouldn't the low pass keep out anything in the mids or highs from getting near the sub's frequencies? Not to mention I wouldn't listen to it nearly as loud if I could get more highs...piercing ear drums will force me turn to volume down. I'm still new to this whole car stereo thing, so you'll have to forgive me if this is a dumb question...

 

[1sty]

In car audio any attinuation of the booster, basicly the bass treble and mid controls will cuase a signal clip. Only an EQ can boost a signal, these are not EQs.
The NF level is what you want to adjust that will effect the voltage only on the subwoofers RCA preouts. This is good.
You can turn up the mid and trebble but what is the rolloff? 1/3 octive, 1/2 octive 2 octive. The 2 is about right and a mid boost will effect the sub a bit but it will be more troublesome to the speakers in the car.
The lowpass on the sub should be 90 hz and down or there abouts anyway.
Only adjust the sub via the NF level not the bass or any of that crap.
You don't have to listen to me and I want you to like your system but if a clean signal isn't getting it done then its time to get some better equipment. Bossting only shortens the life of the equipment you have.
You mentioned your and engineer so I know you have seen a clipped wave form on an oscilliscope. That is what the booster in a radio do to the signal.
Ever play a full square wave?
A head unit on 3 will take your head off playing a sqare wave and 4 will pretty much kill everything!
booster do the same, they increase volume by clipping.

 

[servoeyes]

sadly...

The true geekdom of our kind emerges...damn. I'm not even an EE and I understood that. I'm actually a rocket scientist (aerospace engineer...emphasis on space). I think I get your point...I have been boosting the highs and mids a bit, to get some more treble, but I'd rather have my system for a long time than kill it prematurely. I was running the low pass to the sub at 70hz or so, and cranking the bass to +4 - +6 (no expansion, tho...I hate that stuff...) Had I known these things earlier I would never have f'd with it. Thanks a bunch for the help! Hopefully some other people will actually read this and figure out how not to kill their systems, too!(drinks)

 

[1sty]

I wouldn't call it geekdom!
I figure every form of engineer must have had a few electorinics coarses at some point.
Well maybe not custodial

1 or 2, isn't going to hurt anything until the higher volume levels
5 is a death sentance for equipment. It simply induces distortion quicker.
I have had to chance 1 chowder heads speakers 5 times now, all of them! Everytime I check his radio and sure as s*** he has treble on 6 Bass on 5. Usualy with MX on which is Alpines form of bass extension.
5 times I swapped the front 4"s and te rear 6x9"s. We even fused the speakers with 2 amp fuses but if its distortion it won't throw out a high amperage just a clipped sign wave.

Form my breif listening to the 8" it can get up to 90 hz just fine so i would set the crossover to there. Crank the hell out of the NF level not the Bass adjustment.

 

[PhastM3]

i dont think people are frying their subs in the MSP.I think that kenwood has a manufacturing problem with the leads on the sub that go directly to the voice coil.They are coming loose from the violent movement of the sub cone.IMHO

 

[Dexter]

i dont think people are frying their subs in the MSP.I think that kenwood has a manufacturing problem with the leads on the sub that go directly to the voice coil.They are coming loose from the violent movement of the sub cone.IMHO

which might explain when i smacked it, it came on briefly, and when i smacked it again, it came on briefly again. the sub isnt dead..its just not getting connection...

 

[1sty]

blowing off a tinsel lead is a form of blowing a sub. 100 watts rms and an 8" subs really can't be considered violent .
But I have seen manufatures make leads to short in the past, it is a possibility.

 

[Dexter]

we will see...hopefully my dealer wont be a dick

what should the bass Q be at?

any why shouldnt i adjust mids and highs? i dont understand, why leave all that at zero? the bass i can understand, but the mid and high????

 

[1sty]

Its all just distortion thats why you leave it alone. The system will just be pushed into distortion quicker of the bass/mid/highs are adjusted up, same for bass extension and those idiotic preset sound modes.

 

[Dexter]

so i cant adjust my mids or highs because of distortion? thats just ******* dumb....i should be able to make the sound sound like i want it.

 

[1sty]

You can, but when distortion sets in and you cook a tweeter or the sub don't come whining at me about it.
Just be reasonable and when you hear distortion back off. Some people can't actualy hear it, pathetic really.
If you don't like the sound, get new speakers or an 1/3 octive EQ.

 

[Dexter]

hope you didnt take what i said personally, dude.

for some reason though, it just doesnt make much sense to me why im "not supposed" to touch the mid and high. it doesnt make sense at all...thats why they are there, to make it sound like i want, right? i serioulsy, honestly dont get it.

what is this 1/3 EQ you speak of?

 

[1sty]

hope you didnt take what i said personally, dude.

I never do, don't worry about that.

for some reason though, it just doesnt make much sense to me why im "not supposed" to touch the mid and high. it doesnt make sense at all...thats why they are there, to make it sound like i want, right? i serioulsy, honestly dont get it.

Becuase audio companies know that when they sell none highline equipment it will not be used in the best instalation with the best equipment thus they want to give you something to trick yourself into thinking it sounds better then it does.
Bass/ Mid/ Treble all just artificialy crank and distort the audio signal. You can use them for some very minor adjustments but that comes with early distortion. Everything has a trade off.

what is this 1/3 EQ you speak of?

One of the single greatest inventions of the audio gods. Not to mention probably the most important piece of any competition system.
Heres a good one:

Each dial in the 3 rows of 10 dials represents 1/30th of the range of human hearing. Each dial provides a 12db cut or 12db boost to that one tiny piece of the audio spectrum with far less distortion then a head units bass or treble adjustment.

 

[Dexter]

wow never even knew about that before. thanks for the informative post man. now it makes more sense.