~MSP~ SPEAKER SYSTEM ?'s

[celdridge]

Dude, you are an audio moderator you should know this. RMS is root mean squared. Everything is rated in RMS. Did I say 22W was the RMS voltage?? 22W is the power delivered to the speakers through the bandwidth. Look in your specs on the kenwood manual. EVERYTHING is rated in RMS. Your AC in your house is 115V RMS. Thats your peak voltage in AC (the amplitude) divided by the square root of two. This is so you can compare AC power to it's equal in DC.

Since so far everything in this post is completely above my head ... can you guys tell me the inverse of the quotient of the googlioplexis flux capasitor? I might understand what the hell your talking about then.

:-D
(monkey2)

 

[jurgs01]

Read:

http://www.ece.unb.ca/tervo/ee2791/vrms.htm

If you guys are installers then you should know some of what I said in order to match the correct amps and speakers. Power is not the only consideration.

 

[N1XRR]

I am not going to argue with you guys anymore. I was trying to relate RMS to Volts because it means the same thing wherever it is used. Jersey, look at what you said:

The square root of the mean watts squared or something like that. That is just the mean watts.

I respect all of you guys that are saying this crap, but this is what I do. I have been an electrician for 5 years and I am 3 year into my EE degree. RMS of anything is 0.707 times the peak of whatever you are saying is in RMS. I know Ohm's law, and if you knew the full thing you would know Power = Current x Voltage. And if the voltage is rated in RMS (which it all is, then the power is too, which is actually called average power, but no need to go further). An AC signal is delivered to the speakers (being that it varies in frequency with respect to the expected output). If you guys don't know s*** about electronics go to page 46 of your Kenwood manual. Top right (Audio section). What does it say is the full bandwidth power??? That is the power delivered through the full bandwidth of frequencies that the head unit can deliver. The maximum output power (50W x 4) is in RMS, as is the Full bandwidth power. We help design and test s*** like this. I am not going to argue about this anymore because it is way off topic and a waste of time.

I know what ohms law is. Most of what you said is true there also.

But that headunit is NOT putting out 50w x4 RMS. Its physically impossible, especially with this 16 gauge wire they used for power. That must be a typo.

EDIT: I'm looking at it right now. Looks like it says 22w x4 to me.

 

[jurgs01]

I know what ohms law is. Most of what you said is true there also.

But that headunit is NOT putting out 50w x4 RMS. Its physically impossible, especially with this 16 gauge wire they used for power. That must be a typo.

That just is the max power it is able to put out. There is an optimal frequency with an optimal ohmage load that will deliver that amount of power. 99.99% of the time it is not putting out that power, but it can. I don't mean to argue with you guys, but electronic is my life (besides messing with my car, gambling, golfing and ******* it is what I have the most fun doing).

 

[servoeyes]

That just is the max power it is able to put out. There is an optimal frequency with an optimal ohmage load that will deliver that amount of power. 99.99% of the time it is not putting out that power, but it can. I don't mean to argue with you guys, but electronic is my life (besides messing with my car, gambling, golfing and ******* it is what I have the most fun doing).

Buddy...since you don't have the experience in install, you can't relate properly to the variables. I have a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering...taken EE courses. The only thing that EE courses will help you with is True power output calculations and Impedence matching with dual voice coil setups. Beyond that, it's simple troubleshooting.

When a company specs RMS it is RMS wattage...like Jersey said. In car audio, it's not voltage, because the voltage in and resistance of the speakers are variables. Some companies don't even refer to it as RMS; they use continuous program power output. They also offer dynamic program power output...that refers to Max output. A company that uses this terminology is generally catering to the masses a bit more. Still MAX output is not something that you should consider when buying an amp. You have to consider THD, distortion at set wattage, etc. That is why we use RMS when suggesting amps and headunits to match up with speakers. MAX is often a number that the amp hits for a fraction of a second...only that. Hence, you ignore it.

 

[DragonSpeed]

Just get an 8" sub like a JL 8w0-4 or 8w3v2-d2 and slap it into the enclosure. Then you get a 4 ohm load presented to your amp. From there, either mount the amp somwhere else, or invert it and give it some breathing room in the location where it is. Currently, the Kenwood sub you have, is an 8ohm, so the amp is only giving half the power that it's capable of. Replacing your sub with one of the two I mentioned (or a number or other reputable brand's 8" subs) will give you more thump back there.

Well i forgot to mention i already have a rockford 1501bd with 2 hx2 power subs, so i'm in no more need for thump
Just thought a couple more 6x9's would help on the mids, not that it really NEEDS it or anything, just think its lame to have 2 unused 6x9 ports

I HOPE I DONT HAVE TO YELL THIS TO GET THROUGH ALL THIS TECHNICAL FLAMING! lol (flame)

 

[jurgs01]

Of course it's variable it's an audio signal. RMS power is still derived from the RMS voltage, if you have said degree you should know that. That's why they have the (variable AC) Full bandwidth power (at less than 1% THD) of 22W x 4. Have you read through this thread?? My degree is in integrated circuit design where your degree does not specialize and requires basic electronic courses. I don't have experience in install?? I was an Interior Communications electrician for 5 years, which makes it hard for me to listen to people with only a degree and no practical real world experience. Don't talk to me about troubleshooting. Have you ever traced a ground or short on a PA system with thousands of wire on a metal ship 505 ft long with speakers in every space and 5 separate remote amplifiers with one main amplifier oscillator group? Doubt it.

 

[jurgs01]

Well i forgot to mention i already have a rockford 1501bd with 2 hx2 power subs, so i'm in no more need for thump
Just thought a couple more 6x9's would help on the mids, not that it really NEEDS it or anything, just think its lame to have 2 unused 6x9 ports

I HOPE I DONT HAVE TO YELL THIS TO GET THROUGH ALL THIS TECHNICAL FLAMING! lol (flame)

If you have that, and you want more ear-level mid range then get the 6x9. You should buy a separate amp to run all of your mids and highs (and the 6x9s) because like previously said by someone else it would be inefficient to run them off your headunit. I think that would sound good, just not with the stock sub mounted in it's stock location. Sorry about the technical flaming (pretty much destroyed the point of the thread

 

[mspdfreak]

I have a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering...taken EE courses.

I hope you are planning on graduate school. A B.S. alone "might" get you a job as a model aircraft designer...lol.

 

[celdridge]

I hope you are planning on graduate school. A B.S. alone "might" get you a job as a model aircraft designer...lol.

Damn ... now thats just being mean ..... WTF. Why are these boards so ******* angry all the time. I give the dude props for going to school and bettering himself.

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Since so far everything in this post is completely above my head ... can you guys tell me the inverse of the quotient of the googlioplexis flux capasitor? I might understand what the hell your talking about then.

:-D
(monkey2)

*~LOL~* me to!!!

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Wow holy crap! lol!
I wasn't really planning on using 6x9's. just wanted to see if there was any power going to the wires back there since there hidden by the 8" bass enclosure...
~ well:
I need more bass!!! So the amp and sub is probably gone. Not sure what to get cause I just usually get stuff from stores. Like what good stuff from engineering departments of reputable companies were you talking about? Not too much bass, just enough to feel it nicely. I had a 500w a2 rockford punch amp powering two 12" 400w single voice coil punch H.E.'s I believe, had them bridged in my PR5 that got totaled. It sounded perfect bass wise. Now that the MSP's system is tuned pretty well, I'll just turn all bass down, and use power from NF level. What's NF levels stand for n/e ways I listen to all music, so I need a well rounded sound. But like the thumping for rap songs... Thanks for your help...

Any moderator got any suggestions

 

[servoeyes]

I hope you are planning on graduate school. A B.S. alone "might" get you a job as a model aircraft designer...lol.

Really? You sure? Yes I'm planning on grad school. That might explain why I'm unemployed at the moment, unfortunately...that and the fact that a good deal of companies are in a hiring freeze. Sucks to be me.

 

[servoeyes]

Of course it's variable it's an audio signal. RMS power is still derived from the RMS voltage, if you have said degree you should know that. That's why they have the (variable AC) Full bandwidth power (at less than 1% THD) of 22W x 4. Have you read through this thread?? My degree is in integrated circuit design where your degree does not specialize and requires basic electronic courses. I don't have experience in install?? I was an Interior Communications electrician for 5 years, which makes it hard for me to listen to people with only a degree and no practical real world experience. Don't talk to me about troubleshooting. Have you ever traced a ground or short on a PA system with thousands of wire on a metal ship 505 ft long with speakers in every space and 5 separate remote amplifiers with one main amplifier oscillator group? Doubt it.

If I had said degree...very funny. Regardless, you don't do car audio install, do you? That's what I'm talking about. It's a different business altogether. I've only been in it for a little over a year now, but it's enough to know that RMS Wattage is the ONLY power number to concern yourself with in Car Audio. I'm not throwing down the gauntlet and saying that your degree doesn't mean crap (in fact, I think EEs do some hella crazy math among other things...fourier transforms, etc.). What I'm saying, is that MAX power ratings in the car audio industry don't mean crap. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[mspdfreak]

Boys...Boys...please. Quit all this bullshitting and just measure your dick sizes. That will solve everything.

I believe the original poster wa just asking about the possibility of installing 6x9s in the rear deck of his MSP.

Servo. go back to school or get a headhunter to find you a job.
jurg, go back below deck, treat yourself to a "hollywood" shower, and run some more wire.

 

[jersey_emt]

OK Get back on topic now.

 

[jurgs01]

Servoeyes: You are right, max power rating in car audio doesn't mean crap. I think I (among others) got a little too technical and lost what each other was originally saying. I believe the guy's original question was how to best integrate 6x9s into his existing setup. Can any of the audio moderators help him out on the best amp to run the mids/highs/6x9s?

I like that quote about the hollywood shower. I am guessing you have been through water hours lol.

 

[servoeyes]

Boys...Boys...please. Quit all this bullshitting and just measure your dick sizes. That will solve everything.

I believe the original poster wa just asking about the possibility of installing 6x9s in the rear deck of his MSP.

Servo. go back to school or get a headhunter to find you a job.
jurg, go back below deck, treat yourself to a "hollywood" shower, and run some more wire.

Can't afford to go back to school...in debt too much. I've got 4 headhunters looking, too. What a beautiful life, neh? Oh well...I didn't mean for it to turn into a pissing contest. I don't need any e-stress to add to my regular stress.

Anywho...as for the 6x9s in the rear. I think it may have been covered before, by 1sty, that adding them there means that you need another amp and you should remove the sub enclosure. I'd also suggest just powering them off the headunit if you do it, and using the Kenwood amp to power the front speakers. Then you get a seperate amp and sub (since the kenwood really blows...literally) and you're all filled out. However, trying to use 6x9s just to fill out bottom end will disappoint...but that's just all my opinion. Take it or leave it.

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Boys...Boys...please. Quit all this bullshitting and just measure your dick sizes. That will solve everything.

I believe the original poster wa just asking about the possibility of installing 6x9s in the rear deck of his MSP.

^ ~Ay~ "Precisely"

Anyone might happen to know where I can get those JL 8" 4ohm speaker people are talking about and the name and stuff so I can go shopping... I want to have two and bridge them off the stock amp... Any one think that'd be ok Will it thump pretty good I have boxes to put them in already... Thanks for any help...(2thumbs)

 

[ND4MSP]

very informative and interesting post guys. Gonna have to swap out my sub one of these days. I am so biased not to pull the rear box for better sounding stuff because its part of what makes the speed so unique. But I'm sure I'll get the itch some day. I'm afraid I need an asprin or aleve or somethin, after reading all of these posts.