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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
OK, I have done a LOT of editing & I think the list is very good now. Please continue with the feedback.
MSP pros & cons
- Thread starter Black Majik MSP
- Start date
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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
I agree on the 6spd & I'll add in the torque. I think the gas mileage is both...it can be good if you drive your car like a granny, but it can also drain your wallet if you boost a lot (I'm spending nearly twice what I did on my old Corolla).
gixermixer
Member
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- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed, Sunlight Silver
BrianV said:
I totally agree with these points. On the last point I would say only the Dodge SRT4 even comes close to the value you get with a 16-18k MSP. Best bang for your buck hands down.
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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
BUMP! Does anyone have any that I'm missing?
I think the pro's and con's should only exist if they're quantifiable and not overly subjective.... and if they follow the theme of the car. It's not really a 'con' if there's no comparison, either.
For instance, the last few 'cons' are:
-no intermittent wiper control - can be purchased from Mazdastuff.com (for the P5...not sure if it works on the MSP)
(OK, adds weight if it had intermittent wipers, it would then be a con to me.)
-stock Bridgestones SUCK in snow - buy winter wheels & tires
(It's a performance car, would rather it came with all seasons?)
-lack of a 6 speed tranny means highway cruising is a little high
(this would make the cost higher, going against the #1 pro)
-no standard sunroof (not that I care...I get superior structural rigidity instead ) - can be dealer installed under warranty with factory quality for around $1000
(reduces rigidity, causing car not to handle as well, adds weight, could leak, etc.)
When I bought my car, I knew all of this and didn't look at it as a pro or a con, just a fact about the car. Actually, to me lack of a sunroof was more of a pro.
Then there's the service issues. Aside from hesitation and clunk, there really shouldn't be any more issues about valve diverters and whatnot.. Any car will have problems, just list the most common. If everyone doesn't have the problem, it's not a con. Since I only had the hesitation and clunk, 'everyone' has NOT had the other problems.
I love the shifter but, don't consider it a pro or con. You have to learn to use it... it took me an hour.
There seems to be a lot of subjective stuff throughout the list that could be a pro or con.
When you finalize the list, consider whether each item really is a pro or a con as it applies to the MSP's purpose. If the item negates its purpose, it's a con. If it improves or applies to that purpose, it's a pro.
Intermittent wipers are not a con. However, LSD is a pro because it makes a difference in the performance of the car.... which was the goal of this car... along with light weight, performance, handling, etc.
Sorry for the pro/con lessons but, it just seems kind of willy nilly what's on it. Everything from true performance, real problems, to silly one-off issues that no one would care about.
I mean this as contructive... hope it is.
For instance, the last few 'cons' are:
-no intermittent wiper control - can be purchased from Mazdastuff.com (for the P5...not sure if it works on the MSP)
(OK, adds weight if it had intermittent wipers, it would then be a con to me.)
-stock Bridgestones SUCK in snow - buy winter wheels & tires
(It's a performance car, would rather it came with all seasons?)
-lack of a 6 speed tranny means highway cruising is a little high
(this would make the cost higher, going against the #1 pro)
-no standard sunroof (not that I care...I get superior structural rigidity instead ) - can be dealer installed under warranty with factory quality for around $1000
(reduces rigidity, causing car not to handle as well, adds weight, could leak, etc.)
When I bought my car, I knew all of this and didn't look at it as a pro or a con, just a fact about the car. Actually, to me lack of a sunroof was more of a pro.
Then there's the service issues. Aside from hesitation and clunk, there really shouldn't be any more issues about valve diverters and whatnot.. Any car will have problems, just list the most common. If everyone doesn't have the problem, it's not a con. Since I only had the hesitation and clunk, 'everyone' has NOT had the other problems.
I love the shifter but, don't consider it a pro or con. You have to learn to use it... it took me an hour.
There seems to be a lot of subjective stuff throughout the list that could be a pro or con.
When you finalize the list, consider whether each item really is a pro or a con as it applies to the MSP's purpose. If the item negates its purpose, it's a con. If it improves or applies to that purpose, it's a pro.
Intermittent wipers are not a con. However, LSD is a pro because it makes a difference in the performance of the car.... which was the goal of this car... along with light weight, performance, handling, etc.
Sorry for the pro/con lessons but, it just seems kind of willy nilly what's on it. Everything from true performance, real problems, to silly one-off issues that no one would care about.
I mean this as contructive... hope it is.
BremertonMSP
Member
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- 95 F-150 4x4, 89 Mustang Turbo Coupe, 87 Thunderbird Turbocoupe
Black Majik MSP said:
Pros
- Heavy Duty Drive Shafts
- Heavy Duty Clutch
Cons
- Cheap little Callaway plastic elbow on the intake. Sucks warm air from the engine compartment, and has fallen off for a few unlucky members.
And BTW CarlM2, the pro/con list isn't limited to performance issues such as adding weight or what may or may not be subjective. Black Majik just asked for a list of what people thought where the pros and cons of the car, so an individual thinking about buying the car had one place to look for info.
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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
CarlM2: Bremerton summed it up, but I basically want to list EVERY positive and negative experience that MSP owners have had with the car (excluding things that are debatable or caused by human error). I consider no sunroof to be a con too, but I know when I went on VWvortex, several of the Dubbers said the only things keeping them from buying the car were the lack of cruise control & a sunroof (thus making it a con to a potential buyer). I understand your idea, but I guess you should just try to think of this as a list of "What we're glad the MSP has & what we wish it did or did not."
newf: Any suggestions on how to make mine work?
Since I don't have the clunk & I don't feel like reading all 650+ posts in your thread, I didn't really know the current status. I'll add the bushing #, but I think you'll agree that I shouldn't list it as a fix until we see if it fixes it for good.
This thread might have been done before, but I doubt they were this thorough & I never saw them (so you know none of the noobs will either).
BremertonMSP: I added your points. Thank you for explaining my purpose.
Geo212: Correct me if I'm wrong, but 6 speed is supposed to result in faster acceleration vs a 5 speed in most cars due to the shorter gear ratios. If you're any good at shifting, that 1 extra shift won't hurt your time at all.
I also updated the list to include Spool's new fuel piggyback, which I think is the closest thing to software we have so far.
newf: Any suggestions on how to make mine work?
Since I don't have the clunk & I don't feel like reading all 650+ posts in your thread, I didn't really know the current status. I'll add the bushing #, but I think you'll agree that I shouldn't list it as a fix until we see if it fixes it for good.
This thread might have been done before, but I doubt they were this thorough & I never saw them (so you know none of the noobs will either).
BremertonMSP: I added your points. Thank you for explaining my purpose.
Geo212: Correct me if I'm wrong, but 6 speed is supposed to result in faster acceleration vs a 5 speed in most cars due to the shorter gear ratios. If you're any good at shifting, that 1 extra shift won't hurt your time at all.
I also updated the list to include Spool's new fuel piggyback, which I think is the closest thing to software we have so far.
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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
CarlM2 said:
As for my one-off issues...
Black Majik MSP said:
I agree with all your points except these 2. I like a 6spd close ratio, yes it can slow down your accel time cuz you have to cut power to shift, but you have a more precise gearing ratio matched for both top speed and accel. I like the rims on the MSP especially the 03.5 rims, but my fav is still the BBS rims on the 2002 RX7 spiritR sold only in Japan, those rims are deadly. good list. 
Tires follow the grooves because of the design of the tire. If you have a less "performance" tire it wouldn't do that. It's called traming? some1 correct my spelling.
ID3 Tag in MP3 doesn't work, did you check your ID3 Tag on your computer to make sure it's on before you burn it to disc? The only thing I have gripe about the ID3 is that it can't display foreign characters, but then again how many kids in US needs a faceplate with ID3 tag capabilities that display foreign language font.
Black Majik MSP said:
Tires follow the grooves because of the design of the tire. If you have a less "performance" tire it wouldn't do that. It's called traming? some1 correct my spelling.
ID3 Tag in MP3 doesn't work, did you check your ID3 Tag on your computer to make sure it's on before you burn it to disc? The only thing I have gripe about the ID3 is that it can't display foreign characters, but then again how many kids in US needs a faceplate with ID3 tag capabilities that display foreign language font.
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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
I got the ID3 tags to display after Scott showed me how at the meet last night. I was so happy, it was like buying a new head unit! 
Re: Re: MSP pros & cons
I'm pretty sure it's tramlining and it's more an effect caused by the alignment and not as much the tires. Our cars are aligned with almost a degree of negative camber which causes that. It also causes the car to handle better.
Tires and handling are an adjustable element of every car so, I don't think it's a pro or a con for the MSP either but... that's me... I look at this pro/con list as a 'characteristic' list with some people looking at some of the pros being cons and the cons being pros.
YuYuRena said:
I'm pretty sure it's tramlining and it's more an effect caused by the alignment and not as much the tires. Our cars are aligned with almost a degree of negative camber which causes that. It also causes the car to handle better.
Tires and handling are an adjustable element of every car so, I don't think it's a pro or a con for the MSP either but... that's me... I look at this pro/con list as a 'characteristic' list with some people looking at some of the pros being cons and the cons being pros.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Some people also refer to it as "hunting"...In my experience...Negative camber decreases it, which causes the tire footprint to not be even when the vehicle is moving in a straight line...The negative camber is good for cornering, but not good for acceleration traction or braking, but overall MSP's have pretty unagressive amounts of toe-in from the factory...Toe-in can cause hunting problems, which is one reason why a car in need of alignment can do it worse...
hunting is usually caused by the tire's tread design/tread + sidewall flexibilty and the overall width of the footprint...grooves in the pavement cause the tread to squirm laterally making the car pull from one side to the other and vice versa...If alignment is ok, the car should only do it on uneven pavement...My p5 barely did it with the stock 195/60's, and does it like crazy with the 215/40's...And I have driven vehicles with rear section widths as wide as 315mm, and on my roads it was plain scary...
hunting is usually caused by the tire's tread design/tread + sidewall flexibilty and the overall width of the footprint...grooves in the pavement cause the tread to squirm laterally making the car pull from one side to the other and vice versa...If alignment is ok, the car should only do it on uneven pavement...My p5 barely did it with the stock 195/60's, and does it like crazy with the 215/40's...And I have driven vehicles with rear section widths as wide as 315mm, and on my roads it was plain scary...
Pro: That orange on 03 is really sweet
Cons: In Canada, Mazdaspeed is actually quite expensive. If you lease, (which I do all the time, as I get bored quickly) combination of low residual nad high interest makes it very unatractive. I got BMW 320 for 550$CAN/month (all in, 0 down), and MazdaSpeed would have cost me within 10 $/month. And BMW is 8000$ CAN more expensive car. Granted, it's more portly, but there are few good things about it. Similar story for Acura RSX-S. It was matter of few $/month between 3 of them.
My point is, price of the car is not very reflective of the total cost of ownership.
This is all data from July, market may have changed.
Cons: In Canada, Mazdaspeed is actually quite expensive. If you lease, (which I do all the time, as I get bored quickly) combination of low residual nad high interest makes it very unatractive. I got BMW 320 for 550$CAN/month (all in, 0 down), and MazdaSpeed would have cost me within 10 $/month. And BMW is 8000$ CAN more expensive car. Granted, it's more portly, but there are few good things about it
. Similar story for Acura RSX-S. It was matter of few $/month between 3 of them. My point is, price of the car is not very reflective of the total cost of ownership.
This is all data from July, market may have changed.
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- 2003.5 Titanium Gray MSP #1699
dimic said:Pro: That orange on 03 is really sweet
Cons: In Canada, Mazdaspeed is actually quite expensive. If you lease, (which I do all the time, as I get bored quickly) combination of low residual nad high interest makes it very unatractive. I got BMW 320 for 550$CAN/month (all in, 0 down), and MazdaSpeed would have cost me within 10 $/month. And BMW is 8000$ CAN more expensive car. Granted, it's more portly, but there are few good things about it
My point is, price of the car is not very reflective of the total cost of ownership.
This is all data from July, market may have changed.
Leasing is evil & why wouldn't you want to keep this car forever anyway?
