Mods for Auto-X?

[aceP5]

Hi,

I have a 2003 Protege 5. I recently heard about a club at my school that does motor sport events, including auto crossing. I already wanted to gear my mods in that direction, because I know the car will never be that fast on the drag strip. It's strengths are in handling, so that's what I want to improve upon.

I really want to start auto-crossing. I probably won't do it that much but I just want to try it every so often, I imagine I will only do it twice a year or so. So I was just wondering what I should do in terms of mods.

My car is a tiptronic auto. I have heard that some of you auto cross with the stock suspension.

My plans are to add some more power to the car and then to work on the suspension. Here's my plan, in the order of my planned mods:
1. Racing Beat Cat-Back
2. Wagner Shorty Header
3. Spark plugs of some sort
4. K&N Typhoon CAI (after warranty is gone)
5. Unorthodox UnderDrive Pulley (after warranty)
6. Suspension mods

#6 above is one of my questions. i was thinking new shocks and springs, the Racing Beat sway bar, and the Rear strut bar. Now, do these mods really help the P5s handling, or is the stock set-up best? I want to maintain a stock feel (I don't want the car to be too bumpy when I drive everyday). I do not mind a lowered car (and actually want that look), though, but I want to know how many mods I really need to autocross safely. I do not want to flip the car or anything, I just want to have the confidence that it can handle quick turns.

So, what is the best plan? Just springs? or shocks and springs? Or should I leave the stock springs/shocks and go with a stiffer sway bar and rear strut bar? Also, if you know of suspension parts that are made especially for auto-xing, let me know.

In addition, I really do not want to buy new tires (at least not now). Will it be okay to use the stock setup to autocross? (Like I said, just a few times a year, if that many).

Thanks for your help.

 

[Solo2Protege]

#1 Do nothing to the car!

#2 learn to drive! I don't mean that in a demeaning way. I mean, get to know the car as it is now, nevermind about what mods. The biggest mod you can make is to take a school or course, get as much seat time as possible and ask a shitload of questions.

#3 If you do try it, i can garauntee it will become an addiction and you will be out there every other weekend

www.scca.org

http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm

 

[Leigh]

Touch nothing until you've gotten some experience. The only thing I would recommend is tires and you've said you're not interested in that. It is more than OK (and probably a good idea to start) to run completely stock setup.

If its just a few times a year you probably won't even eat up your street tires too much (YMMV - depends somewhat on the lot and your driving style). But the best idea is not to change anything for awhile and when you do change anything, do so slowly to give yourself a chance to evaluate if what you've done is helpful(on which note, for autox - ignore 1-5, focus on 6 & add 7.TIRES).

AutoX is fairly low risk, so use common sense, don't aim for corner workers, light posts, curbs or other cars and you should be fine. Safety wise all you need is a helmet, flipping the car takes some talent.

*missing autoxing these days *

 

[aceP5]

Thanks for the insight and the links. I will have to read that handbook. Suspension-wise, what is a good first mod? I will probably still do exhaust, header, etc because other goals of mine are to improve overall drivability and "fun-ness" of the car, as well as improving gas mileage. Will adding a total of 15 hp to the wheels help a lot in autocross, or would it be more important to put all that money into the suspension?

I will definitely leave the suspension stock for now. I want to learn how to drive my car while adding a bit more power to the car for everyday fun. Where should I draw the line between speed and handling mods? (keeping in mind that I want the car's engine to rev faster/drive better/accelerate better.)

Is the best handling mod new tires? If so, what type (dimensions), what brand, and what diameter? I was thinking about finding some cheap rims to use for my auto-x tires. Perhaps the stock rims on another car. I was looking into the 03-04 Nissan Altima Stock Rims, i was hoping to get a set of rims like these and powdercoating them for auto-x. Do you know of any stock rims of other makes of cars that will fit our lug pattern?

thanks!

 

[aceP5]

The biggest mod you can make is to take a school or course, get as much seat time as possible and ask a shitload of questions.

Where can I take a course like this? How much money would it cost?

 

[Javo]

Go to scca.org and find a region near you. And drive your car stock to get the feling of it.

 

[Leigh]

Will adding a total of 15 hp to the wheels help a lot in autocross, or would it be more important to put all that money into the suspension?

Handling is so much more important at an autocross.... if you want confirmation go to events and see who is winning. Actually, best advice is to go to events and talk to people who are driving cars like yours fast. Generally they know what's working.

Tires: Azenis are popular because they are cheap, last reasonablely well and are very grippy. Just have a water sprayer around or they'll overheat really fast. I like the Kumho MXs also - they're maybe not as fast as the azenis, but I don't have to water them. Both of these options can be lived with as street tires in the summer (or all year if you're somewhere without ice/snow).

On powedercoating wheels, NEVER EVER powdercoat aluminum wheels you will be autocrossing on. NEVER. It weakens them and they can actually crack apart under the stress and go flying off into the great yonder.... I've seen the results of this & its not pretty.

Many regions offer novice courses once a year or so, you mentioned a school club - get in touch with someone in charge and ask about practice or novice days. If there isn't anything at that club there may be one at another nearby group. Group run courses usually run between 40-80$, touring courses like the Evolution schools are around 200-300$.

 

[aceP5]

Cool. Thanks for the help. Now, my other questions are about suspension mods.

Of the following, which is the best first mod?
1. Lowering springs (what type)
2. Rear sway bar (racing beat, specifically)
3. Rear strut tower bar (similar to stock one across front strut tower)
4. Other??? (Besides tires)

Moreover, will I add any performance by doing springs, or would I need to get new struts/shocks (I get confused as to which is which all the time) with the new springs?

For now I want to try it out stock, but I just want to get an idea of what lies ahead if I get into AutoX seriously.

Thanks!

 

[dolphin]

aceP5,
Tucson Arizona is having an Evolution school in Oct. This is some of the best spent money for an autocrosser. Look here for their announcement:
http://www.azbrscca.org/evoinfo.html

As for some general advice, don't mess with the car until you read the rules and get some experience. A P5 handles well enough stock that you can learn the basics in the first few events and decide what you want to do. If you do a search for autocrossing on here you can find a ton of general inforamtion on getting started autocrossing. Also, here is an old discussion thread from the miata.net on new autocrosser advice:

http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000745

Some of the names that show up in this thread are even now at the PRO SOLO and Solo II Nationals. Last year's results show 5 entrants from Albuquerque at the Solo II Nationals. I know that some are gone to the Nationals now. You might be able to chase one of them down and get some help. Most autocrossers are very willing to help novices.

I hope that something here helps. Good luck and remember to have fun.

 

[Solo2Protege]

once you've got a few events under your belt and your starting to feel comfortable with the car, then i'd say just START to think about mods. Keep in mind that any suspension mod will make the car handle differently, so to big a mod or to many mods, will force you to back to square one and learn the car all over again. While doing small changes one step at a time, you'll get a much better feeeling of what the car will do. And you'll be able to keep up with the car as a driver.

Also, need to figure out which class you'll eventually end up in, STS seems like where you're going to fit in...so rear up on that class and find out the rules for mods and then max out the car (of course, that'll be a few years down the road) but if it doesn't say you CAN, count on the fact that, that means you can't.

For myself, this is my 3rd year in Solo2 and my car is maxxed out for STS class, now it's more of tweeking and tuning it and improving on the current mods. now i just gotta get the driver back in sync with the all the changes i've made

 

[Vanimaniac]

AceP5, like everyone else has said, drive it stock first so that you can learn how to drive the car as is. It is a very good handling car straight out of the box and you should do quite well in HS once you get it figured out.

Check out rmsolo.org. Our next event is Sept. 25. down at Pikes Peak International Raceway in the parking lot. Exit 115 on I-25. Might be a bit of a drive for you but it's also a bit of a drive for me and everyone else driving down from Denver/Boulder. I'll be there but not in the P5. Maybe next one.

As far as mods, when you do decide. I'd have to say tires/wheels. I just bought some MX's for the P5, and I also have done suspension (Tokico Blues and Eibach ProKit). Gonna order a rear sway bar soon, too. Then I'll put her up against the other STS'ers and see how she does. I don't plan on doing any CAI, exhaust, etc. Just suspension.

Maybe I'll see ya there. If you do go, you have to register a season number first, then register for the event by the 23rd!

Van

 

[aceP5]

Wow. Thanks for all the help, everyone. I probably won't do any suspension mods for a long time (2 years or more) in my estimate. When you all say not to make any mods before autocrossing, would things like exhaust count? Like I said, i want to add drivability to the car and I imagine adding a bit of power won't hurt me in getting used to the car. Or will adding things like intake, headers, exhaust, pulleys, etc... throw off my "feel" of the car?

I am pretty sure already on doing the exhaust, I've researched it for a LONG time and will probably order it soon (as in next week). This mod really shouldn't hurt my auto-xing, correct? Because I just want the car to be faster now that it seems as though the stock suspension is good enough for auto x.

Thanks for all the help once again!

 

[122 Vega]

Tires first above all. then a lap belt or autox harness so you can stay in the seat. Then simply the best shocks/struts you can afford.

Britt

 

[122 Vega]

Thought about it again, these mods are mostly for street driving it sounds like. They certainly will not harm your autocrossing experience. But these won't necessarily make you a better autocrosser. That is why I chose to stay in STX, so I can mod the car more to make it mroe daily appealing.

Britt

 

[aceP5]

Does the amount of mods on your car alter the class you are put in for auto-x?

The thing I really want to fix about the car is the way it feels from 1000-3000 rpms. It is really unresponsive in that range. For example, from a dead stop, it takes a while to "Get going" as the low rpms do not feel very good.

The situation that I am thinking about is this: I round a curve going about 15-20 mph. I can't shift down to 1st (tiptronic) because that is not necessarily good for the engine. However, the engine has a hard time in 2nd reving until the car really starts to accelerate. What mods will help this lower end the most? I want my car to accelerate a lot faster throuugh the low ranges and rev faster. I was thinking I could accomplish this with a shorty header (staying emisssion legal) and a UnderDrive Pulley. Is this true? Will these mods help my car pick up better in lower RPMs/lower speeds? What mods would you guys suggest to fix this scenario?

Thanks!

 

[dolphin]

aceP5,
The changes that you make to the car change your class. That is why I suggested that you get and read the rulebook. For example, in stock, you can change exhust after the cat but not the exhaust manifold (header). You can change the front but not the rear swaybar. You can not change the pulley and stay in stock.

If you feel you must start making changes now, tires and wheels will probably make the biggest improvement. Remember that the wheels must be the same dimensions plus or minus 1/4inch in offset. A cat back exhaust is ok but will not give you a while lot of power by itself. If you look around cahrefully and find a very light exhaust system, the reduced weight will make a bigger improvment.

The biggest improvement that you can make to your times is to improve your driving.

 

[Vanimaniac]

Do a couple of events stock. If you can manage to finish withing 2 to 3 seconds of the HStock leader, then find a spare set of wheels (legal size for you) and buy some Kuhmo Victoracers and you should find yourself competing for the class win.

Here's my thoughts on classing. Last year I ran in a stock class. I was competetive but I wanted my car to be faster and handle better than stock in my daily driving. Is autocrossing (and even moreso being COMPETETIVE IN YOUR CLASS) just a few minutes a day a few days a year more important to you than what your car could be every day of the year?

I decided around the end of last season that I wanted to up the boost on my Audi for daily driving fun. Even though this shoots me straight up to Street Mod. Now I go from trophying in GStock to being another face in the crowd in Street Mod. However, my daily driving is so much more fun. That is something I can enjoy all the time. Just decide on what's more important to you.

Van

 

[aceP5]

Do a couple of events stock. If you can manage to finish withing 2 to 3 seconds of the HStock leader, then find a spare set of wheels (legal size for you) and buy some Kuhmo Victoracers and you should find yourself competing for the class win.

Here's my thoughts on classing. Last year I ran in a stock class. I was competetive but I wanted my car to be faster and handle better than stock in my daily driving. Is autocrossing (and even moreso being COMPETETIVE IN YOUR CLASS) just a few minutes a day a few days a year more important to you than what your car could be every day of the year?

I decided around the end of last season that I wanted to up the boost on my Audi for daily driving fun. Even though this shoots me straight up to Street Mod. Now I go from trophying in GStock to being another face in the crowd in Street Mod. However, my daily driving is so much more fun. That is something I can enjoy all the time. Just decide on what's more important to you.

Van

That's a great point. I am not even sure how much I will be autoxing. My guess is just once or twice a year now and more later (hopefully when my car is older I will use it only for auto-x). It sounds like the cat back exhaust will not remove me from the stock division, but shorty headers will (is this correct?). These are my first two planned mods. Making my car fun to drive everyday would be great, and an added benefit would be staying in stock class, although that is not necessarily one of my goals.

When it comes to auto crossing, i think I will not be concerned about beating random strangers. i think it'd be more fun beating people that I either know or just my own personal best times.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

 

[Katya4me]

Yeah, I wish I could have autoxed stock. Unfortunately, I didn't know about autox when I first got the P5 and I put a KartBoy in about 1 month after I bought it, tossing me into STS. I plan to stay there though and not mod out of that class. And tires are the biggest difference. My bf is almost entirely stock in STS, but he's running Kumho MX's and they grip so much better than my stockies. I'm going to be running Azenis for the first time this Sunday, and I'm looking forward to feeling the difference. We also just picked up a Miata to autox stock so that should be fun too.

 

[dmitrik4]

the azenis are a HUGE difference over the dunlops.

IMO, STS is the best class for the protege, although i don't know anyone who has built an HS Pro yet.

ace, go to an event or two before you start modding much. an exhaust isn't going to make much differenc eone way or another (and honestly, it's going to take some time before you're even very good at autoX), so go ahead.

check out www.sccaforums.com for some more info and answers to some of your questions about autoX itself.