Microtech VS Haltech

[LordWorm]

Thats not a big difference and still doesn't justify the cost. With practice you can shave .6 sec off your 1/4 time just by getting better 60ft times. Cams and retune for another .2?? How do you know you weren't just driving better that day. Oh well whatever floats your boat.

60 foots havn't changed a scratch.
In my cars current format, I can go and put 10 passes down on 10 separate days and be within a few tenths each time. If i back to back multiple passes on the same day, I can run nearly identical passes after a few shake down runs - its all about consistency and practice. My time reductions are based on an average of a few runs. We're not talking about 1 off/awesome launch passes here.
I consistantly pull 2.250 60s.

I've had the argument a number of times on the NA forums now, and vindicated each time.

An aftermarket ECU will, WITHOUT A DOUBT yield a huge result on a stock FSDE. You only have to look at what the stock ECU/stock motor is doing from an air fuel point of view to see that...to say nothing about timing. And then the ability to squeeze every last OUNCE of power out of each mod you put on the car from then on....to say nothing about doing your engine a favour by getting the AFRs locked off nicely, and your hip pocket by way of far better fuel economy.

Its a complete myth that an aftermarket ecu will "do nothing" if you don't have an extensively modified engine. The stock computer is "that bad". I'm not the only one who believes that it is the "biggest gain you can get from a single mod" to the stock motor.


Now, i'm not saying aftermarket ECU's are for everyone...but what i am saying, is that your statement that you need mods to "justify" an after market ems, or it will "do nothing for you" is totally false.

 

[13984]

60 foots havn't changed a scratch.
In my cars current format, I can go and put 10 passes down on 10 separate days and be within a few tenths each time. If i back to back multiple passes on the same day, I can run nearly identical passes after a few shake down runs - its all about consistency and practice. My time reductions are based on an average of a few runs. We're not talking about 1 off/awesome launch passes here.
I consistantly pull 2.250 60s.

I've had the argument a number of times on the NA forums now, and vindicated each time.

An aftermarket ECU will, WITHOUT A DOUBT yield a huge result on a stock FSDE. You only have to look at what the stock ECU/stock motor is doing from an air fuel point of view to see that...to say nothing about timing. And then the ability to squeeze every last OUNCE of power out of each mod you put on the car from then on....to say nothing about doing your engine a favour by getting the AFRs locked off nicely, and your hip pocket by way of far better fuel economy.

Its a complete myth that an aftermarket ecu will "do nothing" if you don't have an extensively modified engine. The stock computer is "that bad". I'm not the only one who believes that it is the "biggest gain you can get from a single mod" to the stock motor.


Now, i'm not saying aftermarket ECU's are for everyone...but what i am saying, is that your statement that you need mods to "justify" an after market ems, or it will "do nothing for you" is totally false.

OK, so in your logic thats a HUGE gain. I'm sorry but in my eyes thats barely making a difference, and definetly not worth $1000. Like I said whatever floats your boat.

 

[ncsukingpin]

Where do you all tune your aftermarket EMS? Do you take it to a Haltech/Microtech place? Or do you just do it yourself while its on a dyno? Because if I get one, I cant say I know anything about tuning one. I would hate to waste money putting it on a dyno and not knowing how to tune it.

 

[jomoyo069]

i guess u could pay someone to tune it for you

 

[ncsukingpin]

Someone on the forum? Or are there people authorized to tune them?

 

[benben84]

What if he just got a SplitSecond AFC?? I can't recall at the moment if they are only for MSP or not... I would think that is the best bet since he is only planning on boosting 8psi.

 

[jomoyo069]

Someone on the forum? Or are there people authorized to tune them?

there are people at the dyno shop that will tune it

 

[LordWorm]

Where do you all tune your aftermarket EMS? Do you take it to a Haltech/Microtech place? Or do you just do it yourself while its on a dyno? Because if I get one, I cant say I know anything about tuning one. I would hate to waste money putting it on a dyno and not knowing how to tune it.

road tune with wideband to get it close to right, fine tuning on the dyno.

most reputable dyno shops should be able to tune either unit.

The microtech software is fairly easy to get your head around...start in "normal" mode, and just head for the AFRs you need. I believe there are some reasonably good "base" maps posted in this forum somewhere too.

 

[ctt 1982]

road tune with wideband to get it close to right, fine tuning on the dyno.

most reputable dyno shops should be able to tune either unit.

The microtech software is fairly easy to get your head around...start in "normal" mode, and just head for the AFRs you need. I believe there are some reasonably good "base" maps posted in this forum somewhere too.

i agree, it'd be best to get a wideband and street tune it yourself. i'm going throught that process right now, just make sure your laptop isn't a peice of s*** that crashes every 20min.(rant)
SLA, you don't have any experience tuning a standalone on a n/a engine do you?

 

[13984]

i agree, it'd be best to get a wideband and street tune it yourself. i'm going throught that process right now, just make sure your laptop isn't a peice of s*** that crashes every 20min.(rant)
SLA, you don't have any experience tuning a standalone on a n/a engine do you?

Nope, waste of time. (In my opinion so don't get all defensive a type a page long explanation of why I'm wrong)

 

[LordWorm]

i agree, it'd be best to get a wideband and street tune it yourself. i'm going throught that process right now, just make sure your laptop isn't a peice of s*** that crashes every 20min.(rant)
SLA, you don't have any experience tuning a standalone on a n/a engine do you?

always best to get it on a dyno after (a step i havn't taken yet - too many bits going on the car to do that at the moment.) to dial the timing right in...and get optimum fuel efficency...

theres things you just *can't do* on the road....you can't hold it at a fixed rpm and get different load maps, so my process is essentially big long passes through the gears, then pull up the data logs and have a look...(data logging on the microtech is well worth the money, especially if you have the wideband module...)

its not ideal, but it gets you close enough so you don't waste alot of time on the dyno doing the ground work...dyno for fine tuning only etc.

Tuning yourself (or helping tune it with someone else whos more experienced tuning doing the lions share of the work, which is how both my base tunes were done, i only fiddle with fine tuning and so forth at the moment) is also a great way to learn how your motor behaves....and get a better understanding of EFI as a whole.

as for SLA"s comment about NA tuning being a waste of time, to each their own. I work on a turbo car that I had a hand in converting, and whilst i find it to be bucket loads of fun, the challange of getting power out with NA is what drives me to do it.

 

[13984]

as for SLA"s comment about NA tuning being a waste of time, to each their own. I work on a turbo car that I had a hand in converting, and whilst i find it to be bucket loads of fun, the challange of getting power out with NA is what drives me to do it.

And don't get met wrong, I have lots of respect for you because of this, I'm just a boost junky.

 

[LordWorm]

And don't get met wrong, I have lots of respect for you because of this, I'm just a boost junky.

I can see the appeal

We have a 4G63T engine from a VR4 gallant in a mitsubishi commercial van in the workshop...(the conversion i spoke of)...
and yes, in a straight line it is the most fun i've ever had

but its just so easy to get more power...wind up the boost, more grunt...wheres the challange? hehe

sometimes i like having to get dirty to make more power...and even then, only a tiny bit more

The face sucking G-forces of a turbo spooling up are second only to the sound of a tuned NA engine revving its tits off

 

[ncsukingpin]

So what kind of wideband are you all speaking of when you say that you can use it when tuning? Can they all talk to the EMS and data log the AFR? Or do I need to get a specific kind of wideband?

Note I also have another wtb: wideband thread where people are giving me some advice, but I am still at a bit of a loss. What wideband do you all use when tuning?

 

[osu1steve]

Most widebands I've seen will work with the Microtech. Look for one that has a wideband signal output. I have an autometer wideband that works, and had a PLX wideband that also has it ... all you're looking for is a wire that outputs a voltage that corresponds to the AFR ... just wire that into the input on the Microtech (or various other stand-alone unit). I think the Microtech has the rule of 0-5V corresponds to 10-18 AFR ... the Autometer is 0-4V corresponds to 10-16 AFR so it's a bit off, but good enough. You'd just have to find tech. data on the wideband to see what the output is.

 

[LordWorm]

Most widebands I've seen will work with the Microtech. Look for one that has a wideband signal output. I have an autometer wideband that works, and had a PLX wideband that also has it ... all you're looking for is a wire that outputs a voltage that corresponds to the AFR ... just wire that into the input on the Microtech (or various other stand-alone unit). I think the Microtech has the rule of 0-5V corresponds to 10-18 AFR ... the Autometer is 0-4V corresponds to 10-16 AFR so it's a bit off, but good enough. You'd just have to find tech. data on the wideband to see what the output is.

The microtech will read AFRs under 10 and over 16, i'm pretty sure. i was under the impression that it was 0.01v increments. I could be wrong...but i'm reasonably sure i've seen it richer than 10:1