Mazdaspeed Protege Engine Swap Tune?

So I’m swapping a speed engine and manual transmission into my P5. It’s gonna be turbo, I have all the parts and the manual ecu. I was wondering if it was possible for me tune the car to have a crackle tune or anything along those lines.
 

jeffmsp

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Contributor
:
2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
What ems are you using? SSAFC or stand alone? Make a joke map with a bunch of stupid values into high vac cells during higher rpm that you will only see during decel. Don't know why you would want people to think you can't tune a car properly but hey if that's what floats your boat and gets you the hot women then go for it.
 
What ems are you using? SSAFC or stand alone? Make a joke map with a bunch of stupid values into high vac cells during higher rpm that you will only see during decel. Don't know why you would want people to think you can't tune a car properly but hey if that's what floats your boat and gets you the hot women then go for it.
I’m not sure which one it is. But I don’t want it to be constant I want it to be like a piggy back kinda thing that I can turn off and only turn it on when I feel.
 

jeffmsp

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2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
Well step 1 is figure out what you have before you blow up your car

Step 2 is start reading books on how to tune and modify engine management systems until you know what you are doing BEFORE screwing around with things or you will blow up your car

If you are using the mazdaspeed ECU keep the boost at the stock level until you have a way to actually tune the car.

The cheapest option would be to find an SS AFC to go with the stock MSP ECU.

You will also have to put a one way valve on one of the vac lines going to the fuel tank so that you are not boosting your fuel tank. There is probably a how to article somewhere online outlining the details of the swap.

There are better EMS options available but they usually cost substantially more and require more knowledge for install and setting up than just tuning with the stock MSP ECU with an SS AFC and a wide and o2 sensor.
 

jeffmsp

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Contributor
:
2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
I also do not know of any flip of the switch tuners available that work with the stock ECU. Even the SS AFC would require loading a map via USB cable from your windows laptop.

There used to be a unichip option that worked with the stock ECU and had an A and B map but they were not cheap and would require a unichip licensed tuner who knows what they are doing to change the tunes on the maps.

The unichip setup and tuning alone would probably cost more than the entire swap just to make silly sounds during decel so probably the last thing you would ever want to do.

Just buy a flamethrower kit and push the button.

Heck mine used to backfire all the time on catless 3" exhaust and stock ecu. Gets pretty boring after a while.

If it were me I would work on trying to get the swap to run right in the first place. This is where many people end up giving up as they can't even get the basics right and the car ends up running like s*** because they often do not know what they are doing and ultimately end up damaging their motors.
 
I also do not know of any flip of the switch tuners available that work with the stock ECU. Even the SS AFC would require loading a map via USB cable from your windows laptop.

There used to be a unichip option that worked with the stock ECU and had an A and B map but they were not cheap and would require a unichip licensed tuner who knows what they are doing to change the tunes on the maps.

The unichip setup and tuning alone would probably cost more than the entire swap just to make silly sounds during decel so probably the last thing you would ever want to do.

Just buy a flamethrower kit and push the button.

Heck mine used to backfire all the time on catless 3" exhaust and stock ecu. Gets pretty boring after a while.

If it were me I would work on trying to get the swap to run right in the first place. This is where many people end up giving up as they can't even get the basics right and the car ends up running like s*** because they often do not know what they are doing and ultimately end up damaging their motors.
Ok I hear you. I’ll probably not do the tune. But since I’m doing the swap I just got all the components for it. For my exhaust should I do a 2.5” or 3” pip all the way from the cat to the muffler?
 
:
2000 Protege ES
You'll see the most gains with a 3in from the turbo back and mild gains from a 3in setup from the cat back. The stock msp downpipe necks down to almost 1 3/4in so any bigger exhaust makes a huge difference. Though you can still feel a difference turbo swapping an NA car to the MSP turbo setup. Don't expect crazy fast but the torque is very noticeable.

Post up your power goals and use for the car. Here are some basic guidelines:

These engines blow up even before boost and this is usually from poor maintenance. Things like 20 y/o plastic coolant components fail and cause overheating or we've seen a lot of failures from oil starvation. Keep on top of oil, these cars are consuming oil at this age with dried out valve stem seals, general leaks or tired piston rings. It's also with noting the stock MSP tune is horrible and will dilute the engine oil very quickly so do oil changes often.

Engine tuning is tough because these ECUs can't be cracked and tuned like modern platforms. Ultimately you want a higher end standalone ecu with the stock ecu controlling things like ac, electronics, switches etc. I personally like the Haltech elite 1500 (minimum with knock detection) but standalone systems cost big bucks.

Also these engines will only handle about 200-220hp and that will supporting mods and good tuning. The transmissions also fail at 300hp or more (3rd gear being the weakest).

I'd personally say a built engine, standalone ecu and supporting mods at 250hp is the sweet spot where you can enjoy the car more than just fixing whatever breaks next..

Or if sticking with the stock engine go with an msp turbo swap setup and keep it at stock boost with supporting mods. Even that makes for a fun daily once sorted
 

jeffmsp

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:
2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
If you keep your goals modest and run 9 to 10ish psi on the stock MSP turbo, ECU with the SSAFC (tune it yourself using a wide wideband of sensor and windows laptop), an eBay FMIC setup and 3" exhaust you should be making at least 200+whp which is quite a kick in the pants compared to a stock MSP setup. If the ECU is "flashed" IE not an original 03 unflashed then you will definitely want to fill up 93+ octane 91 is not worth the risk even with the SSAFC in my opinion it has ALOT of timing for 10+ psi unlike the original tune that came on orange and black MSPs in 2003. The ecu "flash" adds alot of timing to try and compensate for the rich fuel conditions of an "unfladhed" ecu.

You can keep the IAT sensor somewhere hot to try and drop a few degrees of timing but it is still alot of timing for 10+psi IMO. Maybe others have some better input on this but I never mucked around with the flash as to me it basically seemed to limit you to 10psi or less running 91 regardless of how much fuel you are throwing in. Maybe others have had different experience that's just what I've seen with friends cars.

With the earlier mentioned setup You will keep up or overtake a stockish WRX from a roll which is not bad at all in my opinion. If you run larger WRX 440cc injectors (they drop right in and can be tuned with the SSAFC) and a bit more boost and take out a bit of weight you will be in the same boat against a stockish WRX STI. Not bad considering what your setup would cost IMO.

From my experience going past that point and everything becomes expensive and unreliable.

The only other mod I would consider other than SSAFC, WRX 440 injectors, FMIC, and 3" exhaust would be a used aftermarket exhaust manifold if your stock manifold breaks and a 505zoom intake manifold if you could ever find a deal on one down the line once the car is already sorted.

I wouldn't mess with the 626 intake manifold nowadays. I used to have one and wish the 505zoom was available at the time as it sounds like it is a much better option. For me in the end the 626 manifold was lots more trouble than it was worth in the long run and looking back now the time and money could have been better spent elsewhere.

Also I don't know what kind of fuel pump you have but if it is not a MSP pump make sure you double check with someone what the max power it can reliably supply is.
 

jeffmsp

Member
Contributor
:
2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
Don't forget the MSP axles if you can get them cheap with the MSP engine/Transmission they are larger compared to normal manual protege axles. Make sure you put in new axle seals as they are cheap and easy to change while everything is out of the car. If it were me I would be doing new exhaust and intake manifold gaskets, axle seals, timing belt and water pump at the minimum while it is all out of the car.
 
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2000 Protege ES
I've had good success with the correct single runner 626 manifold personally. I sell them for around $150 with the correct egr tube to match the stock callaway manifold (and steedspeed/ pope manifolds) so it's not too pricy. A 505zoom if someone would be willing to let go of one runs around 600-1300 depending on if it's a V3 so the 626 is a nice alternative. I like the 626 manifold mainly because you can access the oil filter from the top as well as the alternator which is nice. It also gets rid of the two flaps in the stock system. You do loose one else vac port though and if you don't want check engine lights you need the correct egr tube and leave the two vics vtcs solenoids plugged in (just wires vac not needed). This has been my experience though so others may vary.
 

jeffmsp

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:
2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
For $150 with the correct EGR tube that's a different story. Don't F around with deleting EGR it is waste of time IMO and car runs like s*** without it on stock ECU I tried all sorts of things and it never worked right with EGR delete what a waste of time it was to make the car run like s***.
 

jeffmsp

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:
2003 MazdaSpeed Protege
Must be nice. Mine ran like absolute s*** sometimes during startup. I'm also in Canada so maybe the cold weather had something to do with it. I would not do it again without the EGR. But hey that's just what I experienced if you got it idling nice regardless of cold or warm starts on stock ECU that's sweet. I could not and had to use the gas pedal to manually keep the rpm up to prevent stalling when it was acting up.
 
It's cold right now in New York but the car runs awsome I mean it might be cause fuad came over from Cali and put his magic touch to it but im telling this thing is sweet without the egr
 
:
2000 Protege ES
It's cold right now in New York but the car runs awsome I mean it might be cause fuad came over from Cali and put his magic touch to it but im telling this thing is sweet without the egr
Are you running the stock ECU? I havnt had issues with the stock ECU and egr delete except for a check engine light but as Jeff mentioned I hadn't ran the car at freezing temps or colder. If you're going stand-alone of course egr delete wouldn't matter
 
I mean I ran the car with a stock ecu with no egr and had no issues idled perfect but like I said I also had a close friend of mine work on it and he basically can strip and put back together these cars like nothing while blind folded Fuad is a must go to guy for any of ur msp needs!