Max psi with stock internal?

[mysterious]

HI all, what's up

what is the max psi can stock internals handle with the stock turbo? also if i were to fix the internal to handle more psi, heh how much would it cost? <considering i do my own labor>

thanks guys, later!

 

[unwrittenLaw]

joe p (kwiktsi) on this forum pushed his to I think 15-16psi spiking at 19 on stock internals with racing fuel and colder plugs..but I don't know how long that would last. people are running 10psi daily on pump gas with no other mods. its hard to tell down the road how much boost the stock internals can handle, but I think people have proven its a little stronger than originally thought. as far as cost for forged internals...not cheap...do a search on it and you'll find a lot more info.

 

[jred321]

just monitor everything and then you will know when your "max psi" is. stuff will break pretty much just because of detonation, and preventing detonation is really what you need to do. if you never detonate, your internals will last a while. these internals will not take detonation kindly though, so just watch out for that. for forged internals, ~700 for rods, ~500 for pistons, another couple hundred for other misc stuff that you should replace when tearing apart your motor anyways. prices aren't that bad, considering the fun it will bring you. also, to take advantage of your forged internals (however far down the road that may be), upgrade your fuel system, otherwise you won't have as much fun as you should be for all that money spent.

 

[chillinmcmillan]

From what I have been told turning up the boost is dangerous to the engine, I don't see a problem with a few PSI but thats not what my mechanic says. So what can be done to help the engine out if I turn up the boost? Would the intercooler hard pipe kit be a good idea? or a new down pipe? Help please.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

"Turning up the boost" means you're just increasing the airflow. But to a measurement the stock ECU is not familiar with. So the timing and fuel is not adjusted for it. It will work fine up to 10-11psi, but after that you may get detonation -- what kills the internals. So you can either add higher octane (race fuel, easy to do), or control the timing (will need some sort of piggyback or standalone, expensive). Just stay around 10psi if you're running pump gas.

 

[jred321]

agreed. really the best way to turn up the boost is to be able to monitor many different aspects relating to fuel, temperatures, timing, knock, etc... and figuring out when one thing will lead to detonation in some form or another, and doing something to counter that condition. so basically, if you don't know what is going on in your engine or don't care to, stay around 10psi.

 

[David MPS]

The motor have a knock sensor . So when it "heard" knocking , it reduce the timing to prevent detonation. But , this system have limits......

 

[jred321]

it only can to a point, which is why if you monitor things like timing and knock, you know what your limits are so you don't keep pushing it and cause detonation. it can reduce timing to *help* prevent detonation, not completely prevent it.

 

[chillinmcmillan]

so turning it up to 9 or 10 psi, won't blow the plastic intercooler pipes? Should I get the hard ones from Ion along with the downpipe?

 

[KyRaceFan]

Turning up the boost to 9-10psi is safe, as long as its monitored with a boost gauge. That way you know how much youre hitting, every time. You want STABLE boost, with as little spiking. Our ECU's learn whats going on, so its fairly safe, and plus the ECU is very protective, and runs very rich. After 11psi, it takes some smart tuning, and a piggyback to control the fuel where you want it. Also, running 11 or more on stock exhaust isnt a good idea. Its to restrictive, and you cannnot run higher octane leaded fuel with Cats....

 

[jred321]

the extra pressure will put extra stress on the intercooler pipes and may blow them at where they meet other pipes, but they aren't going to just blow apart and hard pipes would be way better, but i personally am waiting til i can afford a fmic rather than just buying hard pipes for the stock intercooler. running 10 psi with a stock exhaust probably isn't the best idea (extra heat stored in engine bay, etc...), but it isn't going to kill anything right away. gauges and other monitoring tools are very necessary if you plan on modding and not blowing things up. egt, oil pressure, a/f (real a/f gauge, not blinking lights), boost pressure, coolant temp will all help you keep from blowing up your engine. datalogging is also a very helpful tool. basically the "max psi" isn't limited by the stock internals, but by the supporting systems for a while.

 

[MrRoseBlackMSP]

where would one go to find new internals??? and what are the demensions to them in the event they need to be custom made??

 

[Kenetix]

I'm sorry man, I was supposed to post specs for you on the pitstons and rods.

 

[iON Performance]

mysterious - if you want to make the max power out of those stock internals, you're going to have to prep the car with all the necessary components to do so.

Running a FMIC will allow you to run @ lower boost pressures to make more power. Also get a true FULL Turbo-back system w/o cats to maximize exhaust gas extraction.

Use an EBC (Electronic Boost Controller) to prevent overboost. (SBC-iD,DC or Apex-i AVC-R are the two we recommend)

 

[MrRoseBlackMSP]

its cool i just want to have them when the cash rolls in to get them

 

[Larone]

In any case though, the stock T-25 Garret turbo is really small and anywhere over say 14psi would be useless...it just cannot support it. I used to such when I had my Eclipse GST running at (stock) 12psi and on high speed runs the car would be boosting like mad and then once I hit around 5800rpm the boost is just gone - internal wastegate doing its job.

 

[Darin]

In reality nobody knows what is 'safe'. It's all a bunch of 'should be's.

I've known guys with STOCK motors to break/bend their rods. Yet mine has twice stock power, and it's fine.

it's a crap shoot really.

 

[Cirielle]

Ion, why do you suggest no cats? You would suggest even a high flow cat???

 

[Darin]

Ion, why do you suggest no cats? You would suggest even a high flow cat???

Removing restrictions in the exhaust decreases how long it takes to spool up the turbo. Switching from a Test Pipe, from my Hi-Flow cat, showed a 25hp/25ft-lbs gain on my Probe GT - All the power was BELOW the peak numbers; as it simply allowed the turbo to spool up faster.

 

[CarlM2]

mysterious - if you want to make the max power out of those stock internals, you're going to have to prep the car with all the necessary components to do so.

Running a FMIC will allow you to run @ lower boost pressures to make more power. Also get a true FULL Turbo-back system w/o cats to maximize exhaust gas extraction.

Use an EBC (Electronic Boost Controller) to prevent overboost. (SBC-iD,DC or Apex-i AVC-R are the two we recommend)

I'm interested in making a few changes to the performance and driveability of my MSP as well... I think a boost controller would be nice but, I'd also like to get the power delivery tuned better. So, I went to JoeP's site and tried to buy the mbc, fpr, etc.. and found that the shopping cart doesn't work, and the new gizmo advertised on the front page isn't in the catalog...

So, I went to Ion's site and found no products at all.

How do you guys order things? There's no phone number for Joe and Ion is long distance.