desertmike680
Member
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- 06 MazdaSpeed 6
Installing either on the stock turbo, will there be an adaquate difference or are they only necessary for upgraded turbos?
Manual Boost control and Wastegate
- Thread starter desertmike680
- Start date
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- 2011 Mustang GT
I'd highly recommend you reconsider this. Using any kind of manual boost control without monitoring on this car is a big risk. Companies like cp-e and Cobb are the way to go, since the ECU will make adjustments and you run the risk of overboosting and popping the motor.
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- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
Mike,
I think you will find near-consensus among the community that this is not the way to go. Sure, you save a few hundred dollars over getting a StandBack or a Cobb AP, but in the long-run you'll be left walking to work. There is no "long-run" when it comes to manual boost control on this engine. You will notice immediate results at half the price of ECU management, but down the stretch you'll be buying a new engine.
If you would like Steve or me to go more into detail as to why it's a bad idea let us know. We would much rather explain the "why not" in detail than be one member shorter.
Chris
I think you will find near-consensus among the community that this is not the way to go. Sure, you save a few hundred dollars over getting a StandBack or a Cobb AP, but in the long-run you'll be left walking to work. There is no "long-run" when it comes to manual boost control on this engine. You will notice immediate results at half the price of ECU management, but down the stretch you'll be buying a new engine.
If you would like Steve or me to go more into detail as to why it's a bad idea let us know. We would much rather explain the "why not" in detail than be one member shorter.
Chris
SMOKEYS36SHOP
Member
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- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6
got a question steve and blender... not like i plan on doing this but do you think its a good idea to get a boost controller and set it at 16lbs so we get 16lbs to redline. as you well know our cars start to drop boost at a certain rpm..now i dont think this is enough to blow up the car and maybe its a cheaper solution to the cobb ap.. i do plan on getting the cobb but maybe it can be a cheaper solution to the cobb ap for some people..cobb $700 vs manual boost controller $100..from what i have heard the boost controllers are ok in moderation and the problem with them is that its easy to say..ahh one more pound wont hurt lol
now if someone does up the boost in our cars doesn't the car create a learning curve to accept the new found power?
now if someone does up the boost in our cars doesn't the car create a learning curve to accept the new found power?
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- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
It is not a good idea to set the MBC even at 16psi, because like you said, you would be holding that throughout the entire rev range. When you surpass about 5400 revs, because of the weight that is flying around as well as not being able to completely exhaust previously combusted gases make for a very bad combination. The ECU manages ignition timing, and fuel delivery to prevent such coexisting and opposing forces from being catastrophic. If you hold additional boost when the engine is cutting fuel and ignition, you will lean out the engine and probably blow it up. Just ask Karma Hunden.
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- 2011 Mustang GT
One thing with the AP (and presumably the Standback) is that the boost tables are configured in the program, and can be adjusted in ATR as well. Just opening up a map in ATR shows you how they calibrated any map you'd like to look at. Also, the car switches when the BAT reaches a certain temp, going into a secondary mode which is a little more reserved. With the MBC, you would essentially override this.
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- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
Not to mention ignoring Open and Closed Loop fuel tables.
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- 2011 Mustang GT
Exactly. You can bypass all this with the MBC, and that's where the risk really sets in.
Hi all.
New to the forum, and the car (I love it!)
I hate to ignore good advice, and especially on grounds of ignorance (as I really know very little about the science of these things), but would it really be that bad to add a $100 Manual Boost Controller to an MS6 and only tweak it 1-2 lbs max?
Certainly going beyond the limits of what the engine and exhaust system is designed for is a bad idea, but I imagine that 1-2 lbs on a stock engine would not hurt anything or limit it's life span. (Only mod right now is a K&N air filter).
Also, if the MBC only bleeds a bit of air off to the same effect of slightly changing the spring rate on wastegate, is this not a transparent effect on the rest of the system?
That is to say - If only tweaked slightly, so that the functions of the various parts of the system are not compromised or stressed, is it not a seamless happy transition into a slightly higher boost range?
I will accept short blunt answers, as you've already said it's a bad idea, but curiosity is whispering in my ear "do it, just a tiny bit. I won't hurt a thing"
Thanks
- Kris
New to the forum, and the car (I love it!)
I hate to ignore good advice, and especially on grounds of ignorance (as I really know very little about the science of these things), but would it really be that bad to add a $100 Manual Boost Controller to an MS6 and only tweak it 1-2 lbs max?
Certainly going beyond the limits of what the engine and exhaust system is designed for is a bad idea, but I imagine that 1-2 lbs on a stock engine would not hurt anything or limit it's life span. (Only mod right now is a K&N air filter).
Also, if the MBC only bleeds a bit of air off to the same effect of slightly changing the spring rate on wastegate, is this not a transparent effect on the rest of the system?
That is to say - If only tweaked slightly, so that the functions of the various parts of the system are not compromised or stressed, is it not a seamless happy transition into a slightly higher boost range?
I will accept short blunt answers, as you've already said it's a bad idea, but curiosity is whispering in my ear "do it, just a tiny bit. I won't hurt a thing"
Thanks
- Kris
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- 2011 Mustang GT
Welcome!
As to why it's not a good idea, the main reason I'd recommend avoiding it is simple. The ECU is complex enough to make adjustments to boost pressure on the fly, and you'll see that if you watch via Dashhawk or AP. By going with the MBC, you essentially 'dumb down' the boost and force it to provide a higher amount of boost than the ECU wants it to.
When you go with the AP, the adjustments are broken down across the rev range, so that it follows the stock trends, with adjustments made where they can be. On top of that, the throttle-by-wire system is opened up to be more true to pedal position (stock is only 65-70% open at WOT).
Also, there's been a lot of talk about the rods not being designed for massive torque down low. With the MBC, you may be subjecting the rods to more abuse at low rpm, which could prove to be disastrous down the road.
Hope this offers more explanation to why to avoid it on our cars.
As to why it's not a good idea, the main reason I'd recommend avoiding it is simple. The ECU is complex enough to make adjustments to boost pressure on the fly, and you'll see that if you watch via Dashhawk or AP. By going with the MBC, you essentially 'dumb down' the boost and force it to provide a higher amount of boost than the ECU wants it to.
When you go with the AP, the adjustments are broken down across the rev range, so that it follows the stock trends, with adjustments made where they can be. On top of that, the throttle-by-wire system is opened up to be more true to pedal position (stock is only 65-70% open at WOT).
Also, there's been a lot of talk about the rods not being designed for massive torque down low. With the MBC, you may be subjecting the rods to more abuse at low rpm, which could prove to be disastrous down the road.
Hope this offers more explanation to why to avoid it on our cars.
