Looks like the MS3's only competition is still a year out..

[got_titan]

guys the americans have made something to compete....i have a ms3 have been looking at the saturn sky just for fun. i was able to drive one a few days ago and its fast...with its dual scroll turbo it seems its always in its powerband....very nice car but not anywhere as practical as the ms3...also the pontiac solstice has thier turbo version to....both are nice cars.....

 

[CTGrey02]

But neither of those cars are in the same category. Those would compete more or less with the Miata and S2000. Just like the EVO and STi aren't and the Mustang and Camaro and Charger aren't.

 

[Hikaru9]

Last I heard (Correct me if I'm wrong) the Caliber SRT was going to have 205 wide front tires and 300 HP (can you say wheelspin?) pulling a much heavier vehicle and it has no traction control as far as I can tell. with the MS3 Mazda went to a great deal of trouble to make sure the car is drivable by limiting power in the first two gears.

Dodge website says Goodyear 225/45R19 W-rated. (RTM) I really wonder why Dodge didn't make it AWD.(eekdance)

 

[got_titan]

But neither of those cars are in the same category. Those would compete more or less with the Miata and S2000. Just like the EVO and STi aren't and the Mustang and Camaro and Charger aren't.

i understand......i was just saying the american manufactures are starting to build faster cars.....

 

[TheDutchGun]

This thread spread like wildfire!

 

[Evo Scooter]

Staying on the original question I still don't think the Caliber will do that well... The fact that they upped the tire size to 225 shows they are trying but I too drove a Caliber/Compass before looking at the MS3. Of course I did go for the base model but it was not that agile. It might do well in a straight line but not in the twisties. I'm still waiting to see how they combat torque steer.

As for American car companies not wanting a part of the high performance compact market, that is their mistake. Brand loyalty is a factor for car buyers and many of these cars are image cars/not moneymakers. Evo's/STis, Corvettes, and even the MS3 are there to draw the buyer in. If they can afford the car, great! If not at least the salesman has you in his showroom and can get you into something else... Like a regular 3 touring or a Ralliart Lancer or the Equivelant.

As for the Sky/solstice twins they are in a totally different calss also and they are not ADA friendly. I tried to get in one but the door pinned my left leg to the steering wheel. Not much room for anything in there including the driver. And it was impossible for me to use the clutch.

EDIT: I just checked the SRT site and the tires ARE 225s. But it also says Goodyear so I am really hoping for their sakes it is not the RS-As as those tires really suck!!

 

[Evo Scooter]

This thread spread like wildfire!

I llike that! And I'm impressed that there was no flaming involved. Just a lot of opinion and discussion. A welcome change from many forums. I'm glad I went zoom zoom.

 

[TheDutchGun]

I llike that! And I'm impressed that there was no flaming involved. Just a lot of opinion and discussion. A welcome change from many forums. I'm glad I went zoom zoom.

I kinda expected some of the things I said to be met with flames but nope, just good clean family fun.

 

[CTGrey02]

Staying on the original question I still don't think the Caliber will do that well... The fact that they upped the tire size to 225 shows they are trying but I too drove a Caliber/Compass before looking at the MS3. Of course I did go for the base model but it was not that agile. It might do well in a straight line but not in the twisties. I'm still waiting to see how they combat torque steer.

As for American car companies not wanting a part of the high performance compact market, that is their mistake. Brand loyalty is a factor for car buyers and many of these cars are image cars/not moneymakers. Evo's/STis, Corvettes, and even the MS3 are there to draw the buyer in. If they can afford the car, great! If not at least the salesman has you in his showroom and can get you into something else... Like a regular 3 touring or a Ralliart Lancer or the Equivelant.

As for the Sky/solstice twins they are in a totally different calss also and they are not ADA friendly. I tried to get in one but the door pinned my left leg to the steering wheel. Not much room for anything in there including the driver. And it was impossible for me to use the clutch.

EDIT: I just checked the SRT site and the tires ARE 225s. But it also says Goodyear so I am really hoping for their sakes it is not the RS-As as those tires really suck!!

Eh.. American car company's build different cars to appeal to a different group. You still have the Cobalt SS and it's Saturn cousin. The Camaro and Challenger are finally coming out to mess with the Mustang some more. GTO's are practically given away. All of those cars have no reason to be in people's driveways other than pure emotion. They're also reasonably priced for their role. Mustangs cost as much as the MS3, so if performance is what your after, you got it. They still have cars to draw people in to dealerships before they come to their senses and buy something that's boring.

 

[TheDutchGun]

Eh.. American car company's build different cars to appeal to a different group. You still have the Cobalt SS and it's Saturn cousin. The Camaro and Challenger are finally coming out to mess with the Mustang some more. GTO's are practically given away. All of those cars have no reason to be in people's driveways other than pure emotion. They're also reasonably priced for their role. Mustangs cost as much as the MS3, so if performance is what your after, you got it. They still have cars to draw people in to dealerships before they come to their senses and buy something that's boring.

Sometimes I wish I came to my senses and bought something boring what with my ridiculous gas consumption and insurance rates but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

 

[CTGrey02]

When your running 12 second times on the 1/4 mile on street tires and drive the car back home.. you wont care about the insurance anymore. Gas costs are pretty easy to control if you obey the speed limits and drive accordingly. I still get 26 to the gallon with the blower on it.

 

[Evo Scooter]

When your running 12 second times on the 1/4 mile on street tires and drive the car back home.. you wont care about the insurance anymore. Gas costs are pretty easy to control if you obey the speed limits and drive accordingly. I still get 26 to the gallon with the blower on it.

Hey! Dat thing got a HEMI in it? Oops wrong car...

The only reason I don't buy a mustang is because everybody down here has one. We call them Cuban Ferraris... Well that and they are a bit to tail happy for me and I like to accelerate, not generate tons of white smoke. (enguard)

 

[TheDutchGun]

Hey! Dat thing got a HEMI in it? Oops wrong car...

The only reason I don't buy a mustang is because everybody down here has one. We call them Cuban Ferraris... Well that and they are a bit to tail happy for me and I like to accelerate, not generate tons of white smoke. (enguard)

Thats why its not bad to have one up here since noone buys them due to winter. I mean I see a lot of Mustangs but I'd say 60-70% of the time its a V6 model. The GT is almost a rarity up here in Ottawa, Ontario.

 

[CTGrey02]

Same, anything serious only comes out in the summer, although this year it's been 40 degrees all winter.. My suspensions worked over enough to the point where the tires hook. Gave lots of EVO's and STi's nasty surprises, lol. My days coming this year though. They've had a whole winter to mod, and I havent touched my car since august.

 

[We Are Ninja]

Sometimes it feels like Japanese car fanboys have an automatic hate on for every American car ever made.

I've been programmed.

I don't hate them all, the Cobalt SS/SC, the SVT Focus, and the SRT-4 (Neon) are all cars I would consider... if they weren't domestic. It's like the word "domestic" makes certain neurons fire in my brain.

 

[TheDutchGun]

I've been programmed.

I don't hate them all, the Cobalt SS/SC, the SVT Focus, and the SRT-4 (Neon) are all cars I would consider... if they weren't domestic. It's like the word "domestic" makes certain neurons fire in my brain.

Well I mean I have to admit I have some bias on the subject too. I really only like American V8s. I definitely find the Japanese get a lot more performance out of a 4 cylinder. Just look at the S2000. It has 250 bhp out of a NA 4 Cylinder. Thats nuts. I only made that comment about the Calibre because I expected a lot of "It's s*** because Dodge makes it" type comments.

 

[SwampAss]

Well I mean I have to admit I have some bias on the subject too. I really only like American V8s. I definitely find the Japanese get a lot more performance out of a 4 cylinder. Just look at the S2000. It has 250 bhp out of a NA 4 Cylinder. Thats nuts. I only made that comment about the Calibre because I expected a lot of "It's s*** because Dodge makes it" type comments.

Buuuut there's no free lunch. Have you ever driven an S2000? It's like riding a 600cc motorcycle. It pulls hard but only at the top of the rev band. Nail it low in the RPMS and it might as well be 150hp. As most turbo guys know, the real kick in the pants is from torque. American V8s put torque out hard and fast. Two different approaches 'tween the Japanese and the Americans but the goal is the same. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[TheDutchGun]

Buuuut there's no free lunch. Have you ever driven an S2000? It's like riding a 600cc motorcycle. It pulls hard but only at the top of the rev band. Nail it low in the RPMS and it might as well be 150hp. As most turbo guys know, the real kick in the pants is from torque. American V8s put torque out hard and fast. Two different approaches 'tween the Japanese and the Americans but the goal is the same. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Thats true about the S2000, I was speaking on numbers alone. I know torque is where the money's at. I've had a pretty wide cross-section of cars in my 7 years of being licenced, but this Mustang was my first real moderate-higher performance car. The japanese obviously have a major handling advantage but I guess it all depends on how you're using/racing your car. If you're going autocross style, then go for the nimble lighter 4 banger, but If its a straight line race, brute force is the way to go I guess. I don't street race but everybody always wants to. Some civic/integra pulls up to me blasting 50 Cent like twice a day when my car isn't in storage. Drives me nuts. I guess I'm getting on a bit of a rant too. Sorry lads.

 

[Rainman]

While I realise my Mustang is a totally different vehicle and set-up from the above cars mentioned, it's similar in both price range and power to all of them. In fact it's much cheaper than an STI or EVO with a 300hp baseline that runs on regular gas to boot. I will concede that my car has nowhere near the handling capabilities of really any high horsepower turbo 4-banger especially the AWD ones, but thats not why I bought it. I did have my name/deposit in for an MS3 but Mazda was taking too long to come out with any info in Canada and it was really getting on my nerves. I also realise that the current gen Mustang design is a love it or hate it style. But then again so is the Hatchback 3. There's also the rarity factor as I understand Mustangs are everywhere in the United States but you must understand that it's the opposite up here. The streets are crawling with Mazda 3s and other FWD cars.

DG,

Your loss was my gain. I wasn't supposed to get one of the first batch, but then you backed out and Bank St. called me telling me that one was available if I wanted it.

R

 

[TheDutchGun]

DG,

Your loss was my gain. I wasn't supposed to get one of the first batch, but then you backed out and Bank St. called me telling me that one was available if I wanted it.

R

Yeah I figured you got that one when I saw your profile. Congrats man. My former roommate actually picked up one of the Ms6's they had there. I'm not sure if they still have some left but all the dealers in Ottawa seemed to have a bunch left over still as recently as 3 months ago from 06.