Koni Yellow + H&R vs Yellow Speed vs BC Racing coilovers?

[phunky.buddha]

So my wife's 5 has dead rear shocks... I want to lower enough to even up the gap, and add some firmer shocks for better control. At the $1000 and under range, I see these options as my best path forward:

Koni Yellow + H&R, about $900
Pros: proven shocks, proven springs, adjustable rebound
Cons: no camber adjustment built in, can't change ride height if I'm not happy with the out of box settings, rear rebound adjustment sucks

BC Racing, $1000
Pros: proven (sort of) shocks and springs, separately adjustable height and preload, adjustable bump/rebound
Cons: no camber adjustment (per BC's application guide), bump/rebound adjustments locked together

Yellow Speed, $950-ish (thought I saw $800 once before, anyone help here?)
Pros: front camber plates included, cheaper if I can find the $800 price deal
Cons: not well known yet

So has anyone had the chance to drive two or more of these setups side by side to compare? I'm no stranger to decent suspension setups:

Had these on my Civic along with a few others in previous iterations

Have these on my S2000, WAY beyond Koni Yellow and BC/Yellowspeed/whatever cheapo stuff

I'm trying to get the 5 to be a lot more stable in transitions and high speed sweepers. High spring rates are good as long as the damping is there to back it up and smooth things out. Harsh is not good (yeah, I know it's subjective) since the kids (4 months and 3.5 years) ride in this car- but the wife does prefer to know what the car is doing rather than float over everything unaware.

The engineer and track junkie in me wants to go with the Konis and H&R springs, but the features on the Yellow Speeds (camber adjust, height adjust) are really attractive for the price. Anyone remember an $800 deal somewhere? The BCs are a little more, but I know they're semi-proven on quite a few different cars. The tires will end up being 235/45-17s of the UHP or better category- maybe some Hankook V12s or something.

What would you guys grab in my situation? The 5 will probably never see a track, but it IS driven quite aggressively. I try to match (try being the key word) the pace I run in my S2000 on my daily commute, but sustaining 1G+ in turns is not something the 5 is capable of. Yet.

Help?

 

[red headz]

Well, if you get the H&R springs for the Mazda5 and don't like them. Sell them to me. I have MS3 springs, and I regret the move. The rear sags too much.

If I could do it over again, I'd go with the H&R specific for Mazda5.
michael.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Well, if you get the H&R springs for the Mazda5 and don't like them. Sell them to me. I have MS3 springs, and I regret the move. The rear sags too much.

If I could do it over again, I'd go with the H&R specific for Mazda5.
michael.

Oh cool, you're Michael too!

I'll think about your proposal... I think most people on this site would be more than happy to own a set of barely used H&R springs. So based on this post of yours you don't have a rough clearance to the fender running the stock RX8 wheel (+50 offset) with a 225/40 tire?!

 

[lakersfan1]

If you can do without adjustability of shock settings, Bilsteins should fit the bill and be a little cheaper than Konis. I'd stick with the H&R springs just because going too low will screw with your ability to carry loads or people.
If turning is a priority, I'd worry about upgrading the rear sway bar more than shocks and springs. Stock is 20 or 21mm I believe. There are some bars as big as into the 30mm range for the rear.
For tires, that's a subjective thing as everyone is looking for something a little different and different parts of the country have different weather requirements. I'm happy with the Continental DWS though. I put them on all my cars now. Can handle snow or rain with no problem. Still great in dry.

 

[Silentnoise713]

If you can do without adjustability of shock settings, Bilsteins should fit the bill and be a little cheaper than Konis. I'd stick with the H&R springs just because going too low will screw with your ability to carry loads or people.
If turning is a priority, I'd worry about upgrading the rear sway bar more than shocks and springs. Stock is 20 or 21mm I believe. There are some bars as big as into the 30mm range for the rear.
For tires, that's a subjective thing as everyone is looking for something a little different and different parts of the country have different weather requirements. I'm happy with the Continental DWS though. I put them on all my cars now. Can handle snow or rain with no problem. Still great in dry.

+1



I am in a similar position as you, looking for a decent setup that’s under $1000, ideally around 800 for me. My conclusion is that there is not much out there for Mz5 (or Mazdas in general) but once you go past 1K, many options open up to you. I am assuming you are considering Mz3/MS3 coilovers and perhaps changing the spring rate of the rear springs to compensate for the added rear weight?

If you really want/need to adjust your ride height/rate, the H&R basic coilovers are a good option @ $1200. KW coilovers are also top notch stuff but cost a little more. If not, Bilstein + H&R would be my recommendations and cheapest to boot. Use the saving to buy a quality set of bump stops (jounce bumpers). If not satisfied, send it in to Bilstein USA, tell them your setup, how you intend on using it, and have it revalved to suite your needs. Great thing for you is that you are in TX so you can afford to go as low as speed bumps/humps allow.

When it comes to suspension, the Germans know best and is usually where I turn towards. There is no wrong option since everything has a trade-off (cost vs. comfort and the personal preference thing) and the more you pay the better you get.

My preference:
Bilstein + H&R (cheapest option yet quite good)
H&R Coilovers (MS3, if I remember correctly uses Bilstein shocks. I think of this setup as pre-matched linear springs to the appropriate shock damping rates + the height adjustable)
Koni Yellows + Eibach (for some reason, I think Bilstein is to H&R as Koni is to Eibach)
KW Coilovers (MS3) (KW V3 are great. I cannot afford it but it’s getting close to Ohlins).


Edit: actually I think the Swedes may be better than Germans but cost too much.

 

[lomatic]

A friend of mine has the Yellowspeeds on is Protege and they are really, really stiff. They handle/feel great, but they are going to be harsh. The extra weight of the MZ5 may help with the stiffness, but I doubt by much.

I went with S-Techs for the MZ3 and GR-2s (I know this isn't on your list, just giving some feedback) and it is a tad on the soft side. I should have at least used the MS3 springs since they have a stiffer spring rate.

If I were to do over again, I personally would have gone with a coil over setup. Probably the Yellowspeeds since I kinda like the harsh ride. I spent almost $900 on everything (I replaced basically every component that I had to touch). Live and learn I suppose.

 

[phunky.buddha]

If you can do without adjustability of shock settings, Bilsteins should fit the bill and be a little cheaper than Konis. I'd stick with the H&R springs just because going too low will screw with your ability to carry loads or people.
If turning is a priority, I'd worry about upgrading the rear sway bar more than shocks and springs. Stock is 20 or 21mm I believe. There are some bars as big as into the 30mm range for the rear.
For tires, that's a subjective thing as everyone is looking for something a little different and different parts of the country have different weather requirements. I'm happy with the Continental DWS though. I put them on all my cars now. Can handle snow or rain with no problem. Still great in dry.

I do prefer to be able to adjust my shocks exactly where I like them, but really feel that's only necessary if the shocks aren't properly matched to the car in the first place (quite a few Teins, cheapo BC, D2, Megan, whatever coilovers) and you have to tune them to be just right. I've read a lot of good things about Bilstein shocks, so I might go that route- but everything I found shows them to be about $100 more per set. Some of my track buddies here at work actually recommend I go with Bilstein shocks over Koni Yellows because of better damping setup and build quality (not that the Konis are bad)... I need to go drive a set and see how they feel.

This is what I found for the Bilsteins:

MZ3 Bilstein B8 (Sport) $740 for full set

35-110774 front right $250ish
35-110767 front left $250ish
24-110815 rear $120ish each (need 2)

MZ3 Bilstein B6 (HD) $740 for full set

35-110743 front right $250ish
35-110736 front left $250ish
24-110808 rear $120ish each (need 2)

And there are no MZ5 specific versions like Koni has with the Yellows, so I worry that running MZ3 valved shocks will result in an underdamped ride on the 5. A set of MZ5 Yellows seems to be going for about $630-650 shipped.

For springs, I don't want to go any lower than the H&R Sports, but being able to fine tune the height (plus I could corner-weight it!) would allow me to get the height absolutely perfect. It's not super important, but at the same price- why not? I'm pretty sure that the $1000 range coilover sets have significantly higher spring rates than the H&Rs too, so they would deflect less under heavy cargo loads and be a bit more responsive too. Again, properly matched damping would be key here to make sure the car still rides well. My S2000 came with springs under 300lb/in in front though, and I'm riding on 800lb/in front, 650lb/in rear with a better ride than stock. I probably can't expect that with the choices (and price) I have laid out, but I can try to do the best I can.

A fat rear sway bar is a must- that's going to happen no matter what coilover or shock/spring combo I get. I'm liking the $200 JBR hollow bar that's posted all over this forum a lot.

I am in a similar position as you, looking for a decent setup thats under $1000, ideally around 800 for me. My conclusion is that there is not much out there for Mz5 (or Mazdas in general) but once you go past 1K, many options open up to you. I am assuming you are considering Mz3/MS3 coilovers and perhaps changing the spring rate of the rear springs to compensate for the added rear weight?

If you really want/need to adjust your ride height/rate, the H&R basic coilovers are a good option @ $1200. KW coilovers are also top notch stuff but cost a little more. If not, Bilstein + H&R would be my recommendations and cheapest to boot. Use the saving to buy a quality set of bump stops (jounce bumpers). If not satisfied, send it in to Bilstein USA, tell them your setup, how you intend on using it, and have it revalved to suite your needs. Great thing for you is that you are in TX so you can afford to go as low as speed bumps/humps allow.

When it comes to suspension, the Germans know best and is usually where I turn towards. There is no wrong option since everything has a trade-off (cost vs. comfort and the personal preference thing) and the more you pay the better you get.

My preference:
Bilstein + H&R (cheapest option yet quite good)
H&R Coilovers (MS3, if I remember correctly uses Bilstein shocks. I think of this setup as pre-matched linear springs to the appropriate shock damping rates + the height adjustable)
Koni Yellows + Eibach (for some reason, I think Bilstein is to H&R as Koni is to Eibach)
KW Coilovers (MS3) (KW V3 are great. I cannot afford it but its getting close to Ohlins).

Edit: actually I think the Swedes may be better than Germans but cost too much.

Thanks! Again, Koni Yellows are cheaper than Bilsteins right now. I also don't necessarily think that the Germans are the best at suspension- but they're pretty damn good. AST and Moton are in Holland- not in Germany.



I didn't consider the H&R coilovers- I'll check those out. I am considering MZ3 coilovers, but the BC and Yellow Speed coilovers are both offered in MZ5 specific configurations. The front rates are slightly higher, and the rear rates almost double what they are for the same model coilover on the MZ3.

I'm trying to spend as little as possible since I prefer to dump the cash into my S2000, but I don't want to go to the bottom of the barrel and get whatever's cheapest... otherwise I might go order those $600 Yonaka coilovers. Again, not many reviews on those on the net, but everything seems to be positive so far. If I go that cheap, I just don't want to think I'll regret not spending another $200-300 up front to get something I'd be happy with. What I really need are a bunch of people in Dallas who have modded their 5s and to go drive all their cars. Fat chance.



I did get KW v3s for my S2000, but sold them before I installed them as soon as my buddy decided to unload his ASTs.

A friend of mine has the Yellowspeeds on is Protege and they are really, really stiff. They handle/feel great, but they are going to be harsh. The extra weight of the MZ5 may help with the stiffness, but I doubt by much.

I went with S-Techs for the MZ3 and GR-2s (I know this isn't on your list, just giving some feedback) and it is a tad on the soft side. I should have at least used the MS3 springs since they have a stiffer spring rate.

If I were to do over again, I personally would have gone with a coil over setup. Probably the Yellowspeeds since I kinda like the harsh ride. I spent almost $900 on everything (I replaced basically every component that I had to touch). Live and learn I suppose.

GR-2s are definitely too close to stock for me- but I did consider your setup. With the MZ3 S-Techs, did you drop to an even fender gap all around or did the rear sag lower than the front? Do you have problems bottoming out?

Your friend's Protege on Yellow Speeds- is it harsh as in badly matched between spring and damper (bouncy, uncontrolled motion, overdamped) or is it just pretty firm and still soaks up bumps quickly when you go over them?

 

[lomatic]

GR-2s are definitely too close to stock for me- but I did consider your setup. With the MZ3 S-Techs, did you drop to an even fender gap all around or did the rear sag lower than the front? Do you have problems bottoming out?

Your friend's Protege on Yellow Speeds- is it harsh as in badly matched between spring and damper (bouncy, uncontrolled motion, overdamped) or is it just pretty firm and still soaks up bumps quickly when you go over them?

The ride is too close to stock. I ordered the springs (and control arms) the day I bought my car, I didn't think that the cost of replacing everything would be as close to a set of coil overs as it was. (bang)

As far as the stance, it sits almost completely level. If anything, the front is lower when looking at fender gap. I've hit a few huge dips on the interstate at speed and it's never bottomed out.

My friend's ride seems balanced and controlled, just extremely firm. The car handles like a dream and is totally predictable.

 

[phunky.buddha]

The ride is too close to stock. I ordered the springs (and control arms) the day I bought my car, I didn't think that the cost of replacing everything would be as close to a set of coil overs as it was. (bang)

As far as the stance, it sits almost completely level. If anything, the front is lower when looking at fender gap. I've hit a few huge dips on the interstate at speed and it's never bottomed out.

My friend's ride seems balanced and controlled, just extremely firm. The car handles like a dream and is totally predictable.

Damn, almost makes me want to go get some Yellows right there. I really wish I could drive a set, and find that $800 sale I dug up a while back too. It's all so subjective...

Thanks for the additional info on the S.Techs.

 

[Sounbwoy]

I'm really surprised that there's nothing from Tockico for these cars.
EDIT: Finally found an application guide. Of course the MZ5 isn't listed and for the 3 and Mazdaspeed 3, they indicate "In Development" for the HP series only..tsk

 

[phunky.buddha]

I ordered the springs (and control arms) the day I bought my car, I didn't think that the cost of replacing everything would be as close to a set of coil overs as it was.

lomatic, one more question for you- what all did you have to replace? Better to get a $1k coilover?

I'm really surprised that there's nothing from Tockico for these cars.
EDIT: Finally found an application guide. Of course the MZ5 isn't listed and for the 3 and Mazdaspeed 3, they indicate "In Development" for the HP series only..tsk

Ugh. Which just means it'll be close to stock for the 3, and underdamped for the 5.

 

[lomatic]

I replaced with struts/shocks with KYB GR-2, the rear shock mount bushings, the front spring bearings/bushings (@ $50/ea I would have save $100 with coil overs), and SPC rear control arms and then the springs. All said, it was close to $900. At the time the Yellowspeeds were going for around $850. I honestly thought the struts/shocks would be cheaper and I didn't realize the front spring bushings/bearings were going to be $50 each plus tax. Hindsight is 20/20.

I like the ride, it's just a little stiffer than stock and it handles nicely (I think the MazdaSpeed3 springs would be a better option). With that said, I can't say I completely regret it. But had I been patient and got a compete price total for everything, I would have bought the Yellowspeed coil overs.

Not to mention, with coil overs you can dial them in, fit wider wheels and control the damper/rebound.

Man, I wish I had bought the Yellowspeeds....

 

[phunky.buddha]

So your spring bearings and bushings were damaged?

 

[lomatic]

So your spring bearings and bushings were damaged?

Just the front passenger spring mount/bearing. I call it a bearing because it actually rotates (Part #8 in image). It is what the top of the spring makes contact with. Every other car I've had just had the top spring perch that bolted to the strut tower. I just replaced the rest because preventative maintenance is easier than having to repair something unexpected...

Also, I am finding them cheaper by about $15 online now but at the time no one had them in stock except for my local dealer.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Gotcha. Thanks for the diagram and the info! I'll keep that in mind....