KanseiZMs Summer Sound System Build-up Thread

[Kansei]

I've decided to do some more with my audio system this summer and decided to make a thread to track my progress and get suggestions and such.

Current Setup:

- Alpine CDA-7894 head unit. 60Wx4 (dunno about RMS, especially with the new CEA 2006 standards), MP3 CD. It's pretty basic compared to more recent head units (it's a 2002), but it was the high-end Alpine model of the day so it still has a nice featureset.
- Kenwood Excelon 5x7 front door speakers (stock MSP speakers). Unsure about wattage handling or anything. On stock wiring, amped by head unit.
- Kenwood Excelon 6" rear door speakers (stock MSP speakers). Again, unsure about specs. Amped by head unit.
- Infinity Basslink (the original one) hooked up to the 4v sub pre-out on my Alpine deck. Wired with some 10-gauge and radio shack RCAs (gold plated yo).


General Goals:

- Have really nice SQ. I'm not looking for crazy bass or SPL, I just want a system that sounds really pure and true to life.
- Keep the costs under the astronomical range (I'm not really looking for 3,000 dollar amps or anything). I'll be doing all the install work myself and shopping around (though I prefer to buy things from local shops when possible when it comes to specialty items and stuff that I need to hear to decide on). I guess keeping it along the lines of the $1000 Audio Challenge thread (though I already have a sub) will work well.


Plans (will keep this updated):
- Replace Head Unit. This is currently on hold as I wait for my 435 dollar refund check from Best Buy to come in the mail. Note to self: never pay cash at Best Buy. I had purchased (and installed, then promptly removed) the Alpine 9857 and it ruined my life. That thing didn't live up to a single expectation that I had. It's the top Alpine CD head unit out right now and it pales in comparison to my 2002 model in almost every way. See thread http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2562395#post2562395 for details of that saga. As of right now I am almost sure that I am going with the Pioneer Premier DEH-880PRS (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/p....html?compName=PNA_V3_ProductDetailsComponent) as it has a pretty amazing featureset for the price (at least in my opinion). I'm still open for suggestions but let me tell you, I've looked at a TON of head units and I'm pretty picky when it comes to quality, user interface, and feature set. The only head units on Crutchfield.com (yes, I looked at every single one as of a couple days ago) that interest me right now are the Pioneers, like that new one with built-in Bluetooth (DEH-P980BT, the Premier version of it). Depending on how much I can get it for when it comes out I could be swayed, but it has blue illumination and I'd rather go with something red or neutral (white like the 880PRS).

- Replace door speakers. I'm thinking about going with a 2-way component for the fronts, replacing the stock tweeters. I'm looking at probably the 300 dollar range for the pair, but that's a bit flexible depending on what other things I have wasted my money on at the time. As for the rears, I'll either leave the Kenwood Excelons that I have in there now, or go with a relatively inexpensive coaxial (preferably from the same brand as my front speakers). I'll run them off the stock wiring if I continue to use the head unit as my amp. I'll run them off the stock speaker wiring until I notice a problem with that or go with a separate amp for the speakers.

- Subwoofer. I gotta say, I'm pretty happy with my Infinity Basslink. One thing I'm strongly considering doing is to wire up some sort of quick disconnect harness for it so that it is more easily removable. I need to be able to use my hatch space without it causing too much of an inconvenience. It has been over a year with the Infinity in so far without having any need to remove it (even hauled a twin mattress inside the car with it still in the back bumpin). If I went with a different subwoofer it would only be to keep a unified brand throughout my system (dumb I know, but sometimes uniformity is nice) or if there was a sub in an enclosure the same size or smaller that totally blew the basslink away. Ideally I'd love to do a setup like what one of the other NEPOC Chris's (Chuyler1) runs (see build-up thread here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118918) has done with using the spare tire well space and having a false floor and all that jazz but that would definitely be down the road a bit farther.

- Sound Insulation - Right now I'm all stock in that regard (i.e. none whatsoever). I haven't done any research into this, but I know it is something I'll want ordered and ready to go when I am getting my new door speakers. I've read some stuff in the past comparing different brands and types but haven't ever thought about what would work best for me.

- Electrical/Wiring - I would like to move to a distribution block off my battery to power all this sound stuff before I do much with anything else. Currently my head unit is directly wired to the battery (with I think 12 gauge) and the sub is wired directly with 10 gauge, and their inline fuses are crammed into the stock fusebox because it didn't look clean at all before. I'm also running my Radio Shack RCA cables intertwined with the power wire for my sub along the driver side of the car under the sills and carpet. I wish there was a better or more professional-looking place to route the wiring.


Things on the back burner:

- Get a dedicated amp for my front door speakers and bridge and amp my rear door speakers off the deck.

- Replace the subwoofer with a more space-efficient solution so that I lose as little of the funcional hatch space as possible.


Current Questions (and things I'm still looking for suggestions on):

- I see those pictures people have diagramming their sound systems. Did you guys make those in a graphics program or is there a charting program (maybe Visio or something) that works better for that purpose?

- Are there any distribution blocks available that aren't really flashy looking, or will I have to make a black cover to put over it? Not that my engine bay looks tame or stock or anything, but I'm not a big fan of blingy gold-plated everything.

- For cables/wiring, who should I go to for a nice medium of quality and price (I'm not looking for a 22,000USD RCA cable)? So far I'm looking at bluejeanscable.com, though I just checked KnuKonceptz.com and noticed they have a nice discrete-looking distribution block but didn't spend enough time on there to see how their prices were. As for power wiring I was probably just going to order supplies from partsexpress.com, though if knukonceptz.com has decent prices/quality/selection I might just order everything (audio cabling too) from them.

- Any suggestions for sound insulation? I've never worked with automotive sound insulation products, but I'm looking for something that is decently easy to install (I get impatient), with decent sound deadening at a price that is reasonable. I don't know how much sound deadening goes for but I'd like to do my hatch floor, hatch door, and hatch walls, as well as the door panels, and keep it under 300 dollars (is this impossible?).

- I've read Chris's (Chuyler1) how-to on creating speaker baffles out of MDF, but does any place sell premade ones that I could just drill to match the screw holes in our doors? I don't much in terms of woodworking tools at school with me.

- What locations to people use for a good ground? Right now my head unit is grounded through the stock wiring harness and my Basslink is grounded through one of the rear seat belt bolts.

Off to do a little more research... (RTM)

 

[Kansei]

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[Kansei]

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[chuyler1]

- Get a dedicated amp for my front door speakers and bridge and amp my rear door speakers off the deck.

You cannot bridge the deck amplifier for various reasons I won't get into. You'll be stuck with the 20w that it puts out into a single channel...but fear not, that is plenty of power for rear speakers.

- Are there any distribution blocks available that aren't really flashy looking...

Are you talking about the fuse holder? You don't want the distribution blocks under the hood. It is best to send one low-gauge power wire to the trunk and then use a dist. block from there with some higher-gauge wire to send to your amps. The gold plating is for improved current flow, but it also adds to bling I guess. There are some that have silver/platinum plating if gold isn't your style.

- For cables/wiring...

I've been going with KnuKonceptz lately. The prices are right, plain and simple. PartsExpress has some nice deals but if you are looking for a basic kit, then I'd go with KK. You don't have to go crazy on RCAs, Just make sure you run them down the passenger side of your P5 and keep them away from anything that has alot of DC current (the fuse box is on the driver's side so that's why I recommend the passenger side).

- Any suggestions for sound insulation?

Start with a roll of RAAMmat (www.raammat.com). See how far it gets you and then order some more. The first thing you should do is the front doors. Add a layer on the outer skin, the inner skin, and then the back of the door panel. You can also add their ensolite to the back of the door panel for added dampening. It makes a huge difference with up front bass and is worth the price. They also sell similar stuff at HomeDepot called Peal-n-stick or something. Its roofing material. People have had varying success. Search on www.diymobileaudio.com for some more tips. I might be able to pull a link up for you in a moment.

- I've read Chris's (Chuyler1) how-to on creating speaker baffles out of MDF, but does any place sell premade ones that I could just drill to match the screw holes in our doors? I don't much in terms of woodworking tools at school with me.

I can prolly make some for you. I don't know of a place that sells them pre-made but there might be something on eBay. Regardless, mine will be much better. Let me know when you will need them. The next few weeks aren't good for me because we had a leak in our basement and I need to clear it out for the condo association to take a look. That means no woodworking until its fixed.

- What locations to people use for a good ground? Right now my head unit is grounded through the stock wiring harness and my Basslink is grounded through one of the rear seat belt bolts.

I'm using the seatbelt bolt for the rear passenger side seatbelt. Works fine.

As for the subwoofer install, I have learned quite a bit from my own build up. I am using 8"s but I might have been able to fit 10"s had I known how high the floor was going to be raised. If you are looking to save space and don't mind tossing the spare tire, I suggest finding a shallow mount sub such as the one Pioneer makes. A single 10 with adequate power will be a big upgrade from your basslink. If done right, you could prolly squeeze a small 4-ch amp and the sub into the tire well by only raising the floor a 1/2" to 1.5". Another option is one of those side-mount FG enclosures. I saw someone selling one a few months back...not sure if he ever got a buyer though. Mark wants me to help him build one for his P5.

 

[Kansei]

You cannot bridge the deck amplifier for various reasons I won't get into. You'll be stuck with the 20w that it puts out into a single channel...but fear not, that is plenty of power for rear speakers.

Good to know, and yeah that definitely is enough power as it is enough power for all of my door speakers currently.

Are you talking about the fuse holder? You don't want the distribution blocks under the hood. It is best to send one low-gauge power wire to the trunk and then use a dist. block from there with some higher-gauge wire to send to your amps. The gold plating is for improved current flow, but it also adds to bling I guess. There are some that have silver/platinum plating if gold isn't your style.

Ok so I would just run like a 4 gauge from the battery to a waterproof inline fuseholder, and then to the back where I'd hide a distribution box behind one of the hatch panels or something. Sounds good. I was shocked at the prices KnuKonceptz has for their nice distribution boxes. Gold won't be an issue as long as it's hidden, so behind a plastic panel in the hatch is fine. I would just buy one of their amp wiring kits but I wanted clear/silver or black/silver. I guess blue would be fine though, since you would just see a tiny piece of it. I could even use the silver wire they include for use as a ground wire for the section before the fuse under the hood.

(the fuse box is on the driver's side so that's why I recommend the passenger side).

I knew it wasn't the right way to do it while I was doing it (Univ. Physics I-III taught me that haha) but it was late and I was tired, impatient, and just wanted to hear the subwoofer working.

Start with a roll of RAAMmat (www.raammat.com). See how far it gets you and then order some more. The first thing you should do is the front doors. Add a layer on the outer skin, the inner skin, and then the back of the door panel. You can also add their ensolite to the back of the door panel for added dampening. It makes a huge difference with up front bass and is worth the price. They also sell similar stuff at HomeDepot called Peal-n-stick or something. Its roofing material. People have had varying success. Search on www.diymobileaudio.com for some more tips. I might be able to pull a link up for you in a moment.

I'll check out the RAAMmat when I get back from work, but I do remember it doing very well in the big roundup article I read a while back

I can prolly make some for you. I don't know of a place that sells them pre-made but there might be something on eBay. Regardless, mine will be much better. Let me know when you will need them. The next few weeks aren't good for me because we had a leak in our basement and I need to clear it out for the condo association to take a look. That means no woodworking until its fixed.

I probably won't move on to the speakers/amps part of my plans for a month or two anyway. The head unit was already budgeted for since I've been thinking about it for a while, but I just decided on reworking the rest of the system last night so I gotta budget that in. My goal is to get my credit card paid off before I get into anything else with my sound system.

I'm using the seatbelt bolt for the rear passenger side seatbelt. Works fine.

Yeah I hadn't had any problem with doing the same, just wanted to make sure there wasn't some super secret mega grounding point on the car.[/QUOTE]

As for the subwoofer install, I have learned quite a bit from my own build up. I am using 8"s but I might have been able to fit 10"s had I known how high the floor was going to be raised. If you are looking to save space and don't mind tossing the spare tire, I suggest finding a shallow mount sub such as the one Pioneer makes. A single 10 with adequate power will be a big upgrade from your basslink. If done right, you could prolly squeeze a small 4-ch amp and the sub into the tire well by only raising the floor a 1/2" to 1.5". Another option is one of those side-mount FG enclosures. I saw someone selling one a few months back...not sure if he ever got a buyer though. Mark wants me to help him build one for his P5.

How much is your floor raised up? It didn't seem like much at all when I saw it. As long as it isn't raised up too much above where the seatbacks end up when it folds down I'm fine with raising the floor. I do have my spare in the car right now, but well it's totally useless because the nut holding the bolt broke so the bolt is loose but can't come out. If I'm ever going to go on a really long trip I should probably just bring my full-size spare with me as-is. When I need to haul stuff it would also be much easier to toss out the full-size spare than rip out a subwoofer, even if I did do a quick-disconnect harness. I'm sure I could do much better than the infinity, but at the time (and for the $250 dollar price) it was more than worth it. It did what I wanted (fill in for what the door speakers couldn't do).

With that, the subwoofer will definitely be the last thing I do on my list.

I think when I get out (in 20 minutes or so) and get back to my apartment, I'm going to plan out all the wiring that I'll need to purchase from KnuKonceptz to do the amp and such.

Is there any issue using the stock door wiring for the door speakers? I haven't had that open in over a year so I don't remember how thick it is. I know it'll be fine with the deck amp but has it been fine with the power you are pushing to your speakers? I figure wiring speaker wire from an amp in the trunk up to the head unit, though VERY bulky, would be easier than getting into each door panel.

Thanks for all the input.. are you the only person regularly in this section? It's like a totally different forum in here.

 

[chuyler1]

I don't recommend using the same color wire for power and ground, especially that close to the battery. If it means that much to you, just pick up a short run of black ground wire from a local shop. You just never know what might happen down the road and you could easily screw things up by accident. I guess maybe if you got some red and black electrical tape or shrink wrap and used it to mark the ends you would be safe.

Running RCAs down the driver's side for a simple sub install is usually fine. But when you start running highs off an amp, those tweeters will be amplifying any high-freq noise that the RCAs pick up. The sub is crossed over low so it isn't really affected. You saved time with your sub install...no harm in that.

My floor goes up to just below the metal car seat brackets. All said and done its about 4" high I think. I'll have to measure it for you.

Stock door wiring is probably fine...but it adds length to your wires since you will probably run them to the back of the head unit. Also keep in mind that if you don't install the component crossovers in the doors you will have to run a second set of wires in there anyway. If doing one set, why not do both. BTW, I don't believe in expensive speaker wire anyway. As long as you have solid connections at each end and the wires are properly insulated, just about any guage, 16 or larger will do fine. I don't know what gauge the factory wiring is. If it is 20 or smaller I would definitely recommend upgrading.

Thanks for all the input.. are you the only person regularly in this section? It's like a totally different forum in here.

There are some loosers taht think they know what their talking about who post here too. Nah, J/K. 1sty stops by occasionally and Poseur and Got_wake are here occasionally also.

 

[NoRotorNoMotor]

http://www.mjmautoinnovations.com/sak68t65.htm

 

[Bala]

Jebus ... only seven posts and so much to read ...

 

[Kansei]

Jebus ... only seven posts and so much to read ...

Yeah it happens. It makes up for how virtually silent I am in person.

 

[Kansei]

http://www.mjmautoinnovations.com/sak68t65.htm

Yeah as long as the mounting depth of whatever speakers I decide to go with is shallow enough that'll work.

 

[chuyler1]

Yeah it happens. It makes up for how virtually silent I am in person.

LOL, my fiance noted that you and John were real quiet. But once Oleg showed up he made up for it.

Those adapters might work but for many speakers...at least the ones I would buy, you need something thicker to account for the larger basket. If you center the speaker perfectly, a 1/2" baffle will work perfectly. For speakers with abnormally large baskets such as my old Eclipses (on the left) this is the only way you'll get the speaker into the 5x7 opening.

 

[Kansei]

LOL, my fiance noted that you and John were real quiet. But once Oleg showed up he made up for it.

Those adapters might work but for many speakers...at least the ones I would buy, you need something thicker to account for the larger basket. If you center the speaker perfectly, a 1/2" baffle will work perfectly. For speakers with abnormally large baskets such as my old Eclipses (on the left) this is the only way you'll get the speaker into the 5x7 opening.

Oleg got us talking. Everyone always thinks I'm having a miserable time at parties/meets/gatherings but I guess I just don't show my emotions correctly haha. I'm fine just sitting back and relaxing, listening to the general conversation until I have good input to make. I think my long-windedness in writing more than makes up for it haha.

I haven't even begun the search for front door speakers so I'll figure that out when the time comes.

 

[chuyler1]

I'm the same way at parties...especially when I don't know everyone well. We just gotta get a few drinks in you. When's your Birthday?

Ahh, nevermind that. Just checked your profile. I smell a Food/Beer meet on March 31st 2007!!!!!!

 

[emi]

I'm the same way at parties...especially when I don't know everyone well. We just gotta get a few drinks in you. When's your Birthday?

Ahh, nevermind that. Just checked your profile. I smell a Food/Beer meet on March 31st 2007!!!!!!

i've been trying to get him drunk for years. *sigh*

 

[Kansei]

I'm the same way at parties...especially when I don't know everyone well. We just gotta get a few drinks in you. When's your Birthday?

Ahh, nevermind that. Just checked your profile. I smell a Food/Beer meet on March 31st 2007!!!!!!

I still won't be drinking though haha. I just don't really plan on doing that ever.

... I'm pretty much the anti peer pressure.

 

[Kansei]

i've been trying to get him drunk for years. *sigh*

you silly rapist. Get back to work haha.

 

[chuyler1]

I still won't be drinking though haha. I just don't really plan on doing that ever.

... I'm pretty much the anti peer pressure.

Uh huh...sure. but no one can resist NEPOC pressure...
(poke)(direct)(fight)(spank)(naughty) (drinks)

 

[Kansei]

Uh huh...sure. but no one can resist NEPOC pressure...
(poke)(direct)(fight)(spank)(naughty) (drinks)

(peep) (peep) (peep) (peep)

 

[slug420]

chris can stay sober.....gotta have someone to drive to taco bell......or maybe KFC now that they have the stoner special magical bowl of mashed potato goodness.

 

[Kansei]

aw crap this thread is over the Chris limit now.