Just installed lowering springs, can i skip alignment?

[maz2da]

Alright guys, assuming there are still people on here, i just finished my spring install--which was prob the easiest spring installation ive ever done, especially the rears--and am wanting to know how long i can go before getting the alignment.

The springs lowered the car 1.2 inches and made it look 10 fold better. It sometimes pulls slightly to the right but i honostly dont remember if it already did that before.

Has anyone here skipped an alignment after installing your springs on the 2 and not experience any appreciable tread wear over time?

Thats all i want to know really. Please no responses of just "always get an alignment after any suspension work", i already know this, i just want to know if you chose not to get the alignment and didnt deal with any negative consequences afterwards. Thanks

 

[utmorpheus]

When you change ride height you change the geometry of how the wheels sit on the pavement. You WILL deal will negative consequences, most notably abnormal tire wear and to a lesser degree loss of grip. The tire wear will obviously take a longer time to present itself, but the change in how the tire reacts to steering, braking, and general traction will be immediate. Personally I would wait two weeks and then have the alignment done. This gives everything that can settle into place a chance to and won't affect your alignments numbers.

 

[daedalus_zero]

^This.

Any time you lower a car, add the cost of an alignment to your budget. Yeah, you're not going to die, but why put uneven wear your tires? Trust me, it creeps up on you. Depending on how far off it is, you're probably going to be getting poorer fuel mileage due to higher rolling resistance. Just think, an alignment is a helluva lot less expensive than a set of tires.

 

[eyeballs]

Alignments are cheap for this car because only the front can be adjusted. I honestly wouldn't even put alot of faith in a stock alignment to begin with, let alone stock alignment plus ride height change. If you really want to know if you can get away without one, some places will put your car on the rack and show you the readout for free. Might as well throw some camber bolts on if you do end up optimizing the alignment. FWIW my toe was off when I had mine done after RB springs.

 

[flatlander937]

DIY for cheap:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...ber-bolt-install-tip-string-alignment-at-home



Yes you want it aligned. Assuming it was good before lowering, you can count on it being off by 0.50 degrees+ afterwards. You can scrub your tires bald in a few thousand miles if its bad enough.

 

[DanR]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but with the stock suspension isn't toe on the front the only thing you can adjust? I am not aware of any other adjustment. You can adjust camber if you add some adjustable bolts. I just made some toe plates and adjusted the toe which was off from the factory.

 

[flatlander937]

Yes only front toe is adjustable in stock form.

 

[utmorpheus]

Yes only front toe is adjustable in stock form.

Which mean, when you change the ride height, you pretty much need the camber bolts in order to keep the tires from being out of alignment.

 

[GrasshopperCO]

Alright guys, assuming there are still people on here, i just finished my spring install--which was prob the easiest spring installation ive ever done, especially the rears--and am wanting to know how long i can go before getting the alignment.

The springs lowered the car 1.2 inches and made it look 10 fold better. It sometimes pulls slightly to the right but i honostly dont remember if it already did that before.

Has anyone here skipped an alignment after installing your springs on the 2 and not experience any appreciable tread wear over time?

Thats all i want to know really. Please no responses of just "always get an alignment after any suspension work", i already know this, i just want to know if you chose not to get the alignment and didnt deal with any negative consequences afterwards. Thanks

I put coilovers on and made the stupid mistake of not getting an alignment...I wore out my front tires within 3,000 miles because I had bad toe-out. When I say "wore-out", I mean completely, past the wear bars. Don't make the same mistake I did...it's cheaper to get the alignment than get a new set of tires.

 

[flatlander937]

Which mean, when you change the ride height, you pretty much need the camber bolts in order to keep the tires from being out of alignment.

No.

Camber doesn't change hardly anything on a strut type suspension. The lack of camber gain(compared to a double a-arm or SLA type suspension) is why it sucks.

Camber is added to make it grip more or help clear fenders generally.

You just need to have the toe adjusted because it changes with suspension travel(or ride height changes!) because the ball joint vs the tie rod end travel in different arcs and the LCA pivot and steering rack inner TREs are at different lengths. Severe cases of toe change with travel is called bump steer... It gets really bad when lowered a lot.

 

[TURBOJ1]

You just don't buy springs.....You buy springs AND an alignment.

 

[utmorpheus]

No.

Camber doesn't change hardly anything on a strut type suspension. The lack of camber gain(compared to a double a-arm or SLA type suspension) is why it sucks.

Camber is added to make it grip more or help clear fenders generally.

You just need to have the toe adjusted because it changes with suspension travel(or ride height changes!) because the ball joint vs the tie rod end travel in different arcs and the LCA pivot and steering rack inner TREs are at different lengths. Severe cases of toe change with travel is called bump steer... It gets really bad when lowered a lot.

Odd, when I switched coils on the Miata it tossed my camber way the hell off. Maybe it was just a botch install job.

 

[damn potholes]

delete

 

[flatlander937]

Yes, all this ^

 

[utmorpheus]

I give up. I'm way too out of the loop when it comes to suspension. Now oil on the other hand...

 

[jasyatz]

Yes, all this ^

And...

Any time you change ride height in any car regardless of suspension type, you will have to make adjustments to correct the camber and toe to get them in spec( or even at least) for consistent handling and tire wear.

The ONLY exception is the rear toe/camber on the Mz2 rear beam( or other cars with solid rear axles) .. It does NOT change either camber or toe with ride height changes.

and to simply answer your question; NO you can not skip the alignment..well you can but I certainly wouldn't reccommend it.

 

[daedalus_zero]

If all you did was springs, they can only adjust your front toe. They'll probably just zero the toe or set it to whatever the computer says is factory spec.

 

[jasyatz]

How will the place I get my alignment done at know what the toe specs for my particular are? Im not going to the Stealer$hip.

Set the toe to zero. Don't let them sell you a 4wheel alignment. Thrust angle will do fine. Toe and go should cost less than $50.

 

[flatlander937]

How will the place I get my alignment done at know what the toe specs for my particular are? Im not going to the Stealer$hip.

Any good alignment machine/computer/software will have the factory specs already.


FWIW you cannot get a pull from alignment problems on a 2 unless your camber is WAAAY off left vs right. Or something is bent. Caster is the only thing that will affect pulling, camber will too but probably 1000+ alignments I've done have found that it takes a large difference left vs right to do so. Caster is non adjustable on our cars.

Having excess toe out will make it darty and may pull to any imperfections in the road or follow road crown easily, it will be more noticeable to the right since most roads in the US are sloped for rain water runoff.

Any time you have a noticeable strong pull start by checking tire pressures, followed by rotating tires left to right. Even if they're directional just for diagnostic purposes. Easily 70/100 customers complaining of a pull is because the tire is causing it, about 27/100 is from it not actually pulling.. The wheel is off center and they perceive it as a pull, and the last 3 are genuinely because of camber/caster causing it.


There have been a few that pulled from binding strut mounts over the years too, its more of a "memory steer" issue where it just kind of randomly refuses to return to center, or its binding on one side but not the other, so it is affected by road imperfections only in one direction. It makes for a very odd feeling.

 

[jasyatz]

This^ If it doesn't pull now, it shouldn't pull when you get the toe set. I set my own toe in the garage using the old fashioned tape measure and 2 4x4 aluminum fence posts. My 10 year old holds the steering straight and use a digital level to set the camber. I've rechecked my work on the shops $50k aligner and it's just about perfect. (within 1/32" toe and 0.2 camber). I've actually reset toe on some race cars with crash damage in paddock by eye and they've been close enough to get the win..