Introductions and a Question

[Somazx]

Hello everyone. I was browsing this forum just before my gf and I decided on buying a P5. We got our just three days ago now. The car is a 2002 P5, Silver, Manual Transmission w 14,000Km - we got it used for $17K CAN which was a decent deal for BC,Canada where they often are advertised used with more km's for 19,800.

Anyway - I have a quick question. I've encountered something unusual with starting out from a dead stop - I think more so when cold. First some background, I've driven standard for 20 years but the past 6 or so I've only ridden motorcyles. So I am a *tad* sloppy still in the new car. But I'm more than competent enough to not stall it or over-slip the clutch, or lurch, etc etc.

That all said, I've twice now had the car viollently shake from a dead stand still. If I had to guess I'd say the clutch was "hopping" instead of slipping until it meshes fully and gets up to speed with the engine/drive.

I think once the clutch is warmed up a bit it gets more difficult to do this - or maybe impossible. But the first few starts from a dead stop require more finnese than typical in cars. Or maybe I'm just too used to motorbikes now =)

Any ideas? Want to get the dealer to address the issue right away if its something that should be looked at. Also the previous owner was a 54 year old man, so it seems unlikely he was abusing the car and clutch.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Groza187]

welcome.

 

[seatown.P5]

Proteges are pretty twitchy at low speeds and when starting from a dead stop. You have to be pretty careful with the clutch and gas pedals. It has something to do with it's ULEV status - fuel and air mixtures or something. There have been a few threads on this in the past.

And then you have the crap motor mounts that let the whole thing shake like nobody's business (compared to other cars I've had). Just watch the shifter dance, it's comical at times.

I suppose it could be a bad clutch, but your experience sounds a lot like mine. Makes for some annoying times in slow city driving, but you get used to it.

 

[seatown.P5]

Oh yeah... welcome!

 

[Somazx]

Oh yeah... welcome!

Thanks.

No its nothing to do with touchy acceleration or abrupt fuel injection.

It may be something to do with motormounts and it getting into some kind of feedback loop.

I called the dealer, he said to let it warm up longer before driving. But this happened about 5 minutes after it had been running. Shouldn't take that long for a brand new car to "warm up".

Well I think I'll take it into them - see if they can check it out. I'll bring up the engine mounts. Guess I'd better read up on the full story there.

Thanks. Anyone else got some ideas?

 

[Replica]

Mine does the same thing! It feels like wheel hop and slipping clutch and who knows what else. It's really crappy....

 

[Somazx]

Wow - after reading up on wheel hop - it sounds like thats what it could be too. Though I'd think there would be more vertical bounce from wheel hop as the front of the car jumps a bit. It didn't feel like that.. but we'll see next (if) time it happens again. I'm getting better at finnesing the car to avoid the shake/hop/vibration. I see the stock tires mentioned as a possible factor - the tires on this are dunlops.

I'm really amazed if this is a wheel hop issue, its not like I'm racing off the line or anything. Just normal, casual driving - revs never over 3000 off the line. So if it hops this easy - I'd scream "design flaw". Also I never had this happen in the other two P5's I test drove while shopping.

 

[Replica]

Wow - after reading up on wheel hop - it sounds like thats what it could be too. Though I'd think there would be more vertical bounce from wheel hop as the front of the car jumps a bit. It didn't feel like that.. but we'll see next (if) time it happens again. I'm getting better at finnesing the car to avoid the shake/hop/vibration. I see the stock tires mentioned as a possible factor - the tires on this are dunlops.

I'm really amazed if this is a wheel hop issue, its not like I'm racing off the line or anything. Just normal, casual driving - revs never over 3000 off the line. So if it hops this easy - I'd scream "design flaw". Also I never had this happen in the other two P5's I test drove while shopping.

I really doubt it's wheel hop, but it sure feels like it.

 

[AlbinoMuntjac]

It's not wheel hop, motor mounts, or anything else that has been mentioned here. There was a problem with the clutches in the 02 P5's that made them chatter and engage horribly. I had the same thoughts as you. It had been a while since I had driven a manual, so I figured I was a bit sloppy. After looking around on here, I found out that there was a TSB out for the problem and my dealer took care of it no questions asked. It was night and day. Courtesy of Edwin at Protege FAQ (here:http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/):

CLUTCH CHATTER DURING COLD TAKEOFF

Applicable Models

<TABLE width="75%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width="50%">Model </TD><TD width="25%">Starting S/N </TD><TD width="25%">Ending S/N </TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]1999 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2000 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]1999 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2000 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2001 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2002 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2001 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2002 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2002 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2002 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[size=-1]2002 PROTEGE [/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]00000000[/size]</TD><TD>[size=-1]ZZZZZZZZ[/size]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




Some vehicles may exhibit a clutch chatter or judder when releasing
clutch during cold conditions. This may be caused by the flwheel
and clutch cover surface materials creating a chatter or judder
during clutch engagement. The flywheel and clutch cover has been
revised to correct this concern.

1. Verify customer concern.
2. Remove the manual transmission according to the following Workshop
Manual procedure:

* 5 Speed: MANUAL TRANSMISSION REMOVAL/INSTALLATION M25M-R (section
05-15A-3).

3. Remove clutch disc, clutch cover and flywheel according to the
Workshop Manual procedure CLUTCH UNIT REMOVAL/INSTALLATION
(section 05-10).
4. Install new clutch disc, clutch cover and flywheel according to the
Workshop Manual procedure CLUTCH UNIT REMOVAL/INSTALLATION
(section 05-10).
5. Reinstall the manual transmission according to the following
Workshop Manual procedure:
* 5 Speed: MANUAL TRANSMISSION REMOVAL/INSTALLATION M25M-R (section
05-15A-3).

6. Verify repair.

Part(s)Information:
Part Number Description Qty Notes
FP01-16-410A-9U Clutch Cover 1 1.8L
FS05-16-410A Clutch Cover 1 2.0L

FP49-11-500A Flywheel 1 1.8L
FS01-11-500A Flywheel 1 2.0L

B633-16-460A-9U Clutch Disc 1 1.8L
FS06-16-460 Clutch Disc 1 2.0L

Note: Make sure the dealer contacts DAG to specify order the above
parts.

</PRE>

 

[bradman]

I remember a lot of people complaining about this, I think it's probably the TSB. I have a standard 03 and never have problems like you're mentioning. If it's wheel hop, you'll know for sure. Mention the TSB to your dealer...you shouldn't have to wait longer before driving, I often turn the key and go without any problems. Good luck!

 

[Somazx]

Ok, thanks AlbinoMuntjac for that information. I'm glad to hear there is a TSB out on this - hopefully it won't be a problem to get the dealer to do the work.

 

[blynzoo]

I had the clutch chatter on my 02. Took it in for TSB listed above. Solved problem. Issue is with grain of clutch. Corrected in 03 models.
This is a free warranty repair that takes almost no time if they have the part in stock.
Welcome to the board.

 

[cbcbd]

Yep, it's the TSB. Make sure to have the dealership drive the car when it's cold. It won't help if you drive it there and have them try it out right away. I went to my dealer twice and both times they claimed that they couldn't reproduce the juddering. Freakin' idiots. If possible, try to be with the tech in your car when he tries to reproduce it. Who knows how much trouble they'll give you about it...