how much will it take to make a p5 sound good

[tranzformer]

how much have u guys spent on ur systems with the head units and subs + speakers. and does anyone recommend dynomat?? i usually listen to trance and only have about 700 bucks to make this work

 

[MisterT]

$1k plus. I have done a lot of changing out amps and so forth. Dynomat is good for vibrations inside the car and a lot of people have misconceptions that it will drown out exterior noise and make a car sound as though you are cruising in a BMW or Lexus, and although it may block out some road noise, it is primarily to keep panels from rattling inside the vehicle. I would look at the best system for $1K that 1sty posted and go from there.

 

[1sty]

http://www2.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26312


There ya go. The $1000 car audio challenge.
Enjoy the read.

With only $700 to work with you can't go all out or atleast not with any products worth a damn.

Front speakers, 4 channel amp, and a single 10 or 12 sub will take up most of your money once you pay for all the accessories. If you buy on th enet you might be able to squek a decent head unit in too.

 

[servoeyes]

LOC, 4-chan amp, components, sub...700$ might get you that, but I doubt you'll get some pounding bass.

Let's say the comps you spend 300$ (I would, this puts you in the range of the JL VRs, Boston Rallys, some good CDTs, etc.). The amp you spend about 250$. (I would...actually, I did...Eclipse EA3422...great amp). Now you're in a tight spot...if you got an amp that has speaker level inputs, your good. The one I have in mind does, so an LOC isn't necessary. So you've got 150$ left for a sub and wiring. The wiring you can get from KNUKonceptz for cheap. Then...I'd say to look into a JL 10w0-4 for a sub. You'll probably get 100-120W from bridging the rears of a 4-channel, and that would be a good sub to take that, methinks. Then, if you want some extra boom from it, put it in a ported box meeting JL's specs. But i would personally try sealed first to see how it blends with the rest of the system.

These are all personal preference...brands can be substituted obviously, to fit what you like and need. This also assumes, like the 1000$ audio challenge thread, that you can do the install and fabrication necessary. Either way, this, combined with the stuff you'll find in that thread should give you a great idea.

--EDIT--
For trance you might have some issues with bass, like there not being enough...but generally Trance bass is faster, upper bass...not like House or hard house, so you should be okay. The key will be to make a test CD and go out and listen at some local stores to get an idea of what you're in for. Basically...for 700$, don't expect to be loud enough to be heard from a mile away *and* still sound good.

 

[1sty]

To save moeny here, I'd actualy do a JL TR series component. That will shave the front stage down to only $200. I have a feeling a single 10" sub isn't going to do it. I'm thinking 2 10's in a sealed box. But finding 2 decent 10's in a decent box for short money isn't all that easy. YOu could find a ton of crappy Sony, dual, lighting, audiobahn or one of another 5000 brands of pure craptastic equptment but I'd aviod it. SInce we are on a tight budget, then maybe 2 of these: http://www.cardomain.com/item/PIOTSW255C
For $40/per, they aren't terrible and the 12 certainly bumps. Its not going to be a great SQ sub but then trance typicly isn't great SQ music so why fight the source. Match these to an alpine MRP-M350 amp for $200.
The box is the next big purchase and for $50 this one is hard to beat: http://www.cardomain.com/item/RTE32210
Its the right size for the subs to be happy and other then maybe needing to be sealed up better with some caulk, it should be fine for this application. You should be able to find this at a local dealer for about the same price if you want to aviod the shipping cost.

At this point we are up to $530. Becuase we only have $170 left to work with, a head unit maybe the best way to go to best utalize the subs and the to give a little more power to the front speakers. PLus its easier to work with to add an amp onto in the future. The alpine CDm9823 is a good way to go as you get 2 preouts and I believe on of them can be set as a subwoofer level control.

Othen then the amp wiring kit you should be all set.

 

[servoeyes]

You think two of those subs only getting about 175W a piece would be good enough? I'm sure they're overrated at like 350W RMS, but will 175 move them well? And with the TRs, or similar components, I'd be concerned with the midbass output...especially only giving them HU power, which is at the most 50W from a panasonic unit that's out of his price range.

In his position, I'd take a listen to VRs, because I think they're a great all around speaker, and they admittedly sound good on 26W or so, but would be better with the 50 of an amp. Plus, with an amp, you get crossover control, so that you can get the speakers to do what you want. Again, though...you end up on the short end of the stick with the subs and bass output.

Hmm...rethinking...say he goes with two amps: Alpine MRP-T220 and the MRP-M350. That's 330$ there...but it gives him a good amount of power to play with: 50 up front and 350 in the back. If he can get 2ohm comps up front, he can have 70W up there. Anywho...then he's got 370$ to focus on getting a sub, components, wiring, and a box. I think a great sub can be had for ~100-150$. Good components should be around that...maybe Alpines or the Kickers that I've heard good things about. It'll be a little more in total than 700$, but I think that it'd be better than trying to skimp, yes-no?

 

[1sty]

You think two of those subs only getting about 175W a piece would be good enough? I'm sure they're overrated at like 350W RMS, but will 175 move them well? And with the TRs, or similar components, I'd be concerned with the midbass output...especially only giving them HU power, which is at the most 50W from a panasonic unit that's out of his price range.

In his position, I'd take a listen to VRs, because I think they're a great all around speaker, and they admittedly sound good on 26W or so, but would be better with the 50 of an amp. Plus, with an amp, you get crossover control, so that you can get the speakers to do what you want. Again, though...you end up on the short end of the stick with the subs and bass output.

Hmm...rethinking...say he goes with two amps: Alpine MRP-T220 and the MRP-M350. That's 330$ there...but it gives him a good amount of power to play with: 50 up front and 350 in the back. If he can get 2ohm comps up front, he can have 70W up there. Anywho...then he's got 370$ to focus on getting a sub, components, wiring, and a box. I think a great sub can be had for ~100-150$. Good components should be around that...maybe Alpines or the Kickers that I've heard good things about. It'll be a little more in total than 700$, but I think that it'd be better than trying to skimp, yes-no?

The Vr's I have were actualy decent with only the head unit, thats all I had in them at the NJ meet. Just the VR's and the deck. Given the he won't be able to afford a V-drive on this budget, the TRs will do a great job. Don't forget they were in JLs Vibe a few years ago that took best sounding car at CES. Midbass will be fine with just the deck although an amp will always help. I won't argue that he might be better off for over all SQ with Vrs and an amp, however I don't think they will fit into his budget with what I have a feeling he may want for bass.

The M350 will knock the crap out of those subs. Of this I have no doubts
A single good sub can surely be bought for $150 but I don't think 1 12 will have the punch he may want and a single 10 probably won't have the volume. If there is one thing I learned form customer at tweeter, its why have one sub.....WHEN YOU CAN HAVE 2! (rofl)

The other reason I went with a new head unit is becuase of the sub bass control. The only thing I use more then the sub level on my alpine, is the volume. It just lets you dial everything in alot better in seconds from song to song. With a LOC he will have no seperate bass control unless he gets a bass knob amp for the sub but those usualy are just bass boosts and not level controls. The other option is top link the subs to the rear speakers and use the fadar but if he wants to adjust the bass relative to the highs this will screw things up. The last way, and probably the best in my eyes is to use an actualy level adjuster, audiovox had them, that simply has RCa in, RCA outs and a knob. This would give him sub control descrete to the rest of the system.

 

[tranzformer]

hey thanx for the help guys, i talked to some friends on this trance forum and they said to go with two 10's in a sealed just because trance bass is quicker and that set up will sound the best. hopefully ill be able to put a good system together

 

[sndsgood]

jus so u know, a 10" is no faster then a 12" or 15" speaker if they are in the proper enclosure. a 10 doesnt move faster. and a 15" doesnt move slower.

 

[servoeyes]

jus so u know, a 10" is no faster then a 12" or 15" speaker if they are in the proper enclosure. a 10 doesnt move faster. and a 15" doesnt move slower.

Yep...the right 12 or 15 in the right box can be very tight and punchy. But that's assuming funding for said equipment and some install prowess. I listen to some hard house, techno, and trance, and my eD 10 is perfect for that. Combined with my components up front set to cut at around 90hz on a 12dB/oct crossover, I get a lot of good sound in the car.

 

[1sty]

Yep...the right 12 or 15 in the right box can be very tight and punchy.

The key to that is the right power
10's tend to reproduce higher bass easier then do larger subs. technicly why, I have no idea just an observations form hearing hundreds of subs. I have always assumed cone wieght, kind of like power to weight ratios.

 

[tddelsol]

15 are horible subs for trance the bass isnt tight enogh.

as for the $1000 challange

alpine radio 300 for 1 with 4v out and a hp filter
ifinity 5x7s buy one get one half of at circuit city 150
alpine d class amp 200
2 ten box 40
infinity 10s 160 for 2
parts run ya about 150 for dash kit wiring harness 8 ga kit and a GOOD set of rcas

 

[sndsgood]

if installed and crossed over properly there is absolutley nothing wrong with 15's and trance, or any other type of music for that matter.

people tight bass comes from midbass not sub bass.

10's will play higher bass then 15's will. but when your talking sub bass, you shouldn't be playing your subs over 75hz anyway. so having a 10 that can play say 150hz good, shouldn't even be an issue because your subs should be crossed over lower then that.


people think 15's are slow because they hear a poorly installed 15" sub on some kids system where his crossover is set at around 150 hz. and yes installed that way a 15 can't keep up. a 15 wasn't made to play 150hz it was ment to play sub bass. i tend to crossover my subs at 60hz or lower, and at that range a 15 can keep up with a 10 with no problems whatsoever. 9x out of 10 poor bass comes from the installation not the speaker, this is just another myth that people beleive for no logical reason.

 

[ChopstickHero]

i have the JL XR-650CSi's up front running on an Alpine MRV-T420. sounds great. my rears are stock for now, but i will probably just upgrade the speakers and continue to run them off deck power. my sub is an Alpine 12" Type-S dual voice coil and it is running off a monoblock Alpine MRP-200. headunit is a Pioneer Premier DEH-p840mp and it has a avx-p7300dvd attached to it. overall, the system sounds great, especially after i added the components. i have different settings depending on what the music i'm listening too, which varies from hiphop to jazz.

 

[1sty]

if installed and crossed over properly there is absolutley nothing wrong with 15's and trance, or any other type of music for that matter.

people tight bass comes from midbass not sub bass.

10's will play higher bass then 15's will. but when your talking sub bass, you shouldn't be playing your subs over 75hz anyway. so having a 10 that can play say 150hz good, shouldn't even be an issue because your subs should be crossed over lower then that.


people think 15's are slow because they hear a poorly installed 15" sub on some kids system where his crossover is set at around 150 hz. and yes installed that way a 15 can't keep up. a 15 wasn't made to play 150hz it was ment to play sub bass. i tend to crossover my subs at 60hz or lower, and at that range a 15 can keep up with a 10 with no problems whatsoever. 9x out of 10 poor bass comes from the installation not the speaker, this is just another myth that people beleive for no logical reason.

Midbass is definitly the problem much of the electricly created music isn't punching in the sub bass range, they are kicking in the midbass range. The PITA of this is that midbass is a royal pain to get into a car on a level club kids like to hear. Typicly deadicated 8's or dual 6.5s in each door is required to pull it off. Not to mention more amps for just them. However this also means the doors have to be built up and deadened. This is not an inexpensive task nor a quick one. Because of this dual, or my favorite, quad 10's is a good sollution to the problem.

If mney was no object that would be one thing but that is never the case. After all, 10" subs are not usualy an ideal subwoofer but a 15" is. But if you run a 15" sub you HAVE to use deadicated midbass drivers to make up for the lack of perfomance over 60-70hz. This means 2 sets of drivers, 2 amps and 2 enclosures. In comaprison for the lack of a small amount of perfomance in the very low and the midbass range, just a pair of 10" subs is a realistic way to go.

 

[tranzformer]

whats the largest speakers that fit in the door of the p5

 

[1sty]

without cutting and getting into some nasty custom work, 6"x8" or 6.5"

 

[tranzformer]

so if 10s are not faster than a 12 or 15, does that mean i should try and get 12's since the bass will sound better. I want to go either dual 10s or dual 12's. a little confussed here

 

[1sty]

so if 10s are not faster than a 12 or 15, does that mean i should try and get 12's since the bass will sound better. I want to go either dual 10s or dual 12's. a little confussed here

The problem is that fast is a term that is somewhat dumbed down so that most people can understand the concept. It like how in high school physics, they dscribe the atom as having a proton, neutron and electron...when there is a lot more going on. If they broke it down further it would get alot more confusing without giving the student a better understanding for what they need to know. In other words it would be information over kill.

Thats the same way with a fast sub explination. A smaller sub can move more easily "faster" then a larger sub. hence a 10" sub can be genericly said to be faster (will move back and forth easier then a larger sub). However there are mor factors involved; several of the subwoofers physicle characteristics, the box type, the box volume, the amplifier being used and its power output. So a more accurate description would be that for a given sub with a given amp, box volume (relitive to the subs), a 10" version of a sub will be able to play higher frequences more accuratly then the 12" version of that sub.

 

[FoxPro5]

Take a look at my sig to see what you can do for $1000 if you are crafty, do a lot of research, and listen to the advice of these guys (servo, 1sty, sndsgood, etc.)...they really know their stuff.

Most have said so far that $700 is not enough, but that depends on your own personal agenda and tastes. Personally, I thought that a Sony deck with some Infinity Kappa's running off it was kick ass until I started learning more and more and my ears started becoming smarter. Also keep in mind that when you ask a question, everyone is going to stay that their speakers, amp, HU, etc is the best and to buy it. I guess it's only human nature to do so?? This is valuable information, but decide for your self!!!

My advice: Take your time, ask the right questions, save your $ for high quality stuff, and shop around...car stereo is pretty competitive and a great deal is out there if you are willing to find it (cheers)