How does MSP fare in its stock auto-x class?

daperspeed

Member
:
03.5 Laser Blue Mica Mazdaspeed
My friend who drives a WRX claims that the only cars compettive in DS class(isnt that our class?)..are the WRX and Type-R. He says the WRX is better overall because its AWD but that the Type R is also really good but that the MSP cant compete at all. He also said that the RSX and 3G Eclipse were both better than the MSP. Is the MSP that bad in auto-x?? Is the MSP even worse than those cars in a road racing situation??? :(
 
there was some guy that posted a story about a WRX and a MSP racing and started from a straight away then into a turn doing 80-100 I think and the WRX went in to the wall and not the MSP. Probably drivers error but I think the MSP has better handling. The all whell drive is cool off the line but there is no doubt in my mind an MSP could hang with and beat a WRX in auto-x
 
HA...with a skilled driver, the MSP can easily beat ITRs & WRXs all day. There is NO WAY that an RSX-S or LOL a 3rd gen Eclipse could even stand a chance against any of those 3.
 
Tell your friend that AWD doesn't automatically = fast car in any kind of racing, especially auto-x.
 
nobody gives Mazda any kind of credit do they? I love when people do that cuz the look on their face when you race them and beat them is just priceless!
 
Um, am I mistaken or hasn't the Miata been kicking ass in Auto-X for years? Mabey not in DS (I'm not familiar w/ Auto-X classes).

I mean seriously, Mazda has the best handling (factory) FWD car and one of the best handling RWD cars in the world.

I am a big fan of the WRX and I have a lot of respect for it. I just wish some WRX drivers would have the same respect for our cars. (Note - I said some, I am not saying all WRX owners are bad.)
 
Uhm, no way... My roommate and I own a 2004 WRX, and the FIRST thing that my roommate said after driving the car was, and I quote; "The car really rocks, but it doesn't handle as nicely as the P5." I find this to be the case every time I drive the WRX. The brakes on the P5 feel better, too. And the Protege5 is a good distance from a MSP. The WRX is a great car, and handles pretty darn well, and is CERTAINLY a better all-around car then the Protege's. If you were to switch from one type of circuit (road racing) to another (off-road rally), you'll find the WRX handles it much better, due to it's long suspension throw and direction toward versatility under most conditions. Remember, the WRX in Japan, while being very fast, still, is just a normal drivers car with a little more in terms of power.

Don't get me wrong; The WRX rocks, like I said, and I LOVE driving it, but it's not really as amazing of a handler from the factory as one might expect from all the hype.
 
In DS, the WRX has a couple handicaps the MSP doesn't: mainly that the MSP has a very well sorted, BALANCED suspension setup while the WRX pushes like a pig. In DS, the best car is probably the BMW330 or ITR, with the MSP slightly below and the WRX a step below that. The big problem with the MSP is no DS legal aftermarket support. It's a really good thing that the MSP has great struts because there aren't ANY aftermarket ones out there that are OK for DS...

PLease note though, that in a modified class where extensive suspension mods are allowed, the WRX can fix most of its problems... In STX, I doubt an MSP can keep with a similarly, properly prepared WRX or the ITR...

Daper: Tell your friend to back up his mouth... Show up at a local event here in JAX or in Cincy, or any of the other places where we have fast MSPs in DS and see how things work out... :p
 
flat_black said:
Uhm, no way... My roommate and I own a 2004 WRX, and the FIRST thing that my roommate said after driving the car was, and I quote; "The car really rocks, but it doesn't handle as nicely as the P5." I find this to be the case every time I drive the WRX. The brakes on the P5 feel better, too. And the Protege5 is a good distance from a MSP. The WRX is a great car, and handles pretty darn well, and is CERTAINLY a better all-around car then the Protege's. If you were to switch from one type of circuit (road racing) to another (off-road rally), you'll find the WRX handles it much better, due to it's long suspension throw and direction toward versatility under most conditions. Remember, the WRX in Japan, while being very fast, still, is just a normal drivers car with a little more in terms of power.

Don't get me wrong; The WRX rocks, like I said, and I LOVE driving it, but it's not really as amazing of a handler from the factory as one might expect from all the hype.
I hate to be the one to say it...

WRX is a fast car and given equal driving skill would dominate.

I love the handling on my car but the launch and acceleration of the WRX is just too sweet!
 
330ci is evil... it can take rubber so wide front and back that you'd think it has a corvette subframe. Definately the class leader with the ITR right behind.

I still don't agree that the STX WRX fixes most of its problems... it still has a roll issue and if some unlucky driver decides to fix the understeer issue through geometry or alignments... well then the AWD has issues and the car still pushes.

I think the only reason Keith Casey took first at nats last year was that Todd Meade's ITR was in the shop and chouldn't run in time... oh and it was raining.

Turns out at that last event I lost to the max prepped STX WRX by less than .02 seconds...I could have farted and passed him. You saw the video, its a course with really really long straights... all power. And 150whp did just fine against 220+whp I have confidence in the car as it develops...

But in DS... yeah the car is totally competitive up until you start playing with the national competitors and the 330Cis start coming out to play. Then its like racing against FS.
 
DistantTea said:
330ci is evil... it can take rubber so wide front and back that you'd think it has a corvette subframe. Definately the class leader with the ITR right behind.

I still don't agree that the STX WRX fixes most of its problems... it still has a roll issue and if some unlucky driver decides to fix the understeer issue through geometry or alignments... well then the AWD has issues and the car still pushes.

I think the only reason Keith Casey took first at nats last year was that Todd Meade's ITR was in the shop and chouldn't run in time... oh and it was raining.

Turns out at that last event I lost to the max prepped STX WRX by less than .02 seconds...I could have farted and passed him. You saw the video, its a course with really really long straights... all power. And 150whp did just fine against 220+whp I have confidence in the car as it develops...

But in DS... yeah the car is totally competitive up until you start playing with the national competitors and the 330Cis start coming out to play. Then its like racing against FS.
Any car has the potential to dominate and I'm impressed with your "Win" 0.2seconds!!!

I was more saying this about the car in it's stock form on the street...

Just so there are no misunderstandings!!
 
Brian MP5T said:
Any car has the potential to dominate and I'm impressed with your "Win" 0.2seconds!!!

I was more saying this about the car in it's stock form on the street...

Just so there are no misunderstandings!!
It was .02 seconds and it was a loss. Stock to stock the WRX will out drag an MSP but I have yet to find one in DS that can keep up between the cones. None of the big names are running them... its got issues.

Right now the food chain in DS goes 330>ITR>IS300>MSP>WRX>SRT4 that leaves out a few cars... but you get the idea. On the street it would go SRT4>WRX>330>ITR=MSP=IS300

Ok I'm just making stuff up at this point... (yes)
 
I've never driven an MSP but have driven both P5 and WRX and I'd have to say the P5 gets my nod for better stock suspension. Last event here in Denver had 17 DS drivers with 6 being WRX's and they all brought up the rear.
330 won it.

As far as the DS food chain, there is a new guy out here in his '04 VW R32 who is quickly moving up the list out here in DS!

Van
 
Having driven both the WRX and the P5 in autocross, the WRX definitly has the advantage on the straights, enough so that it would negate the slightly better handling of the P5... The Protege, however, is much more 'connected' between the driver and the road, and it makes a huge difference in 'feeling' your way through a corner. It's easy to bring the Protege around when needs be, whereas the WRX simply doesn't respond as much to both weight shift and throttle-lift/trail braking without modifications. The turn in is a little sloppy on the WRX, too, which can be fixed with a strut brace without an issue, but again, that is going into the modifications department. The P5 would certainly not win in an autocross, stock-for-stock, against a WRX, assuming equally capible drivers, but the Mazdaspeed Protege would certainly stand a chance, with it's handling advantage. But these are all my opinions. =)

Driver confidence is all in the feeling of the road, and I think the BJ chassis transmits just that a little better than the WRX does, stock for stock.
 
I dont know its just our cars dont seem to be appreciated sometimes. Ive driven a WRX and frankly from my impressions it would get outclassed by my car on a auto-x course especially a tight one. But then again none of these "pocket rocket" cars are status cars. One thing I cannot understand is how Subaru got so hyped up in so little time when Mazda has been making cars like the RX-7, Miata and they were famous for soo many years. I would think Mazda has as much as an engineering pedigree for sporty cars as anyone. I had never heard of Subaru before say 2002, the intro of the WRX.
 
Subaru has been making interesting and kindafast cars for a while now; The old Subaru XT-6 Alcyone, the RX Turbo, Legacy Turbo, in 1992 the introduction of the Subaru SVX and in 1993, the introduction of the Impreza WRX in Japan... Subaru has made the WRX for quite some time, and many former Subaru owners, including those who owned old Subaru GL's, myself included, knew about the WRX, despite it not being in the states... Now, imagine having an 8 to 9 year gap where you KNOW there's a much higher performance Impreza available overseas, and we only get the 1.8L, 2.2L, and a while after, the 2.5L, all N/A. All these enthusiasts WANT the WRX, and they can't have them without swapping an engine and dropping a rather large chunk of change... Finally, all these enthusiasts receive the WRX in 2001. All of the obsessive Subaru owners flock out to buy up the cars, and they're a huge success... What's the aftermarket to do but keep up with the demand? So, now, they have gobs of aftermarket support, are quite fast from the factory, and are pretty inexpensive. Plus, it's AWD, which is a HUGE plus in the area where I live, in the northeast in general. Subaru, to its followers, is a huge name, and an awesome company, and has a long and quite interesting history, as does Mazda, but alas, the sports car heritage of Mazda faded with the removal of the FD3S from the line, with no current car able to fill it's large, grippy, powerful shoes. They build roadsters, now; The MX5, their only claim to fame that still exists, running from 1989 (In Japan) to today.
 
flat_black said:
The P5 would certainly not win in an autocross, stock-for-stock, against a WRX, assuming equally capible drivers, but the Mazdaspeed Protege would certainly stand a chance, with it's handling advantage. But these are all my opinions. =)
.

Well fortunately the P5 (HS) shouldn't have to compete against the WRX (DS) unless PAX's are involved. Given an index of 0.794 for DS and 0.776 for HS, this means that for both cars to have an EQUAL indexed time of say 50 seconds, the DS WRX would have to finish in 62.972 sec and the HS P5 would have to finish in 64.433 sec. So basically on a ~60 sec course the P5 needs to finish within 1.5 seconds of the WRX to actually beat the WRX. I believe that's very doable with equally skilled driver. Just more opinions (:P)

Van
 
Last edited:
flat_black said:
Subaru has been making interesting and kindafast cars for a while now; The old Subaru XT-6 Alcyone, the RX Turbo, Legacy Turbo, in 1992 the introduction of the Subaru SVX and in 1993, the introduction of the Impreza WRX in Japan... Subaru has made the WRX for quite some time, and many former Subaru owners, including those who owned old Subaru GL's, myself included, knew about the WRX, despite it not being in the states... Now, imagine having an 8 to 9 year gap where you KNOW there's a much higher performance Impreza available overseas, and we only get the 1.8L, 2.2L, and a while after, the 2.5L, all N/A. All these enthusiasts WANT the WRX, and they can't have them without swapping an engine and dropping a rather large chunk of change... Finally, all these enthusiasts receive the WRX in 2001. All of the obsessive Subaru owners flock out to buy up the cars, and they're a huge success... What's the aftermarket to do but keep up with the demand? So, now, they have gobs of aftermarket support, are quite fast from the factory, and are pretty inexpensive. Plus, it's AWD, which is a HUGE plus in the area where I live, in the northeast in general. Subaru, to its followers, is a huge name, and an awesome company, and has a long and quite interesting history, as does Mazda, but alas, the sports car heritage of Mazda faded with the removal of the FD3S from the line, with no current car able to fill it's large, grippy, powerful shoes. They build roadsters, now; The MX5, their only claim to fame that still exists, running from 1989 (In Japan) to today.
Quick reminder.... the WRX came from the dealer with a FREE SCCA membership.... That is another reason why the car took off so much in autox...

I've yet to drive a WRX I liked. I got a chance to drive a fairly well sorted one in STX last year, and I was significantly quicker in an equally prepared Nissan NX2000. The WRX definitely FEELS as heavy as it is...
 
Back