High HP with the FSDE

[jeffmsp]

You could always swap a 1.8 BPT in our car. They seem to be alot more reliable than the FSDE.

1.8BP is the FE3s little brother. Not worth the swap just put rods in the FS. If you wanted reliable 400whp I think FE3 is the way to go.

You would need mounts, trans, axles, hubs etc. I see the motors go for $500-$1000. They are from oversees none are in North America from the factory.

Here is some information:

http://members.aol.com/solomiata/FE3.html

Here is a comparison of FE3 rods VS SR20DET rods.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/208000-208999/208651_75_full.jpg

fe3 left, sr right

best stock motor mazda ever made i thinks though the new mazdaspeed disi mzr may be better, it sure as **** aint $500-$1000.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pag...images/4/web/208000-208999/208651_76_full.jpg

Not to mention you can use the 2.2 sohc crank for a cheap stroker job.

 

[LordWorm]

It certainly is the best piston engine mazda ever built. It SHOULD have ended up in the P5 to begin with........

 

[ItsSlow]

Hell, it should have ended up in the MSP to begin with.. Mazda isnt the most intelligent when putting cars together though..

 

[LordWorm]

Theres probably a weak reason such as emissions as to why they didn't use it... or the fact that the engine platform was already in use in the 626 so required negligible R&D costs to get it into its smaller 323 cousin.....

They also sold the engine platform lock stock and barrel to Kia if i recall correctly... theres a few guys over here who pull them out of kia's and drop them into all manner of wild cars.....

 

[jeffmsp]

Im sure it was just cheaper to make them FS. The FS isnt bad when you have realistic power goals and are a good tuner. Most blow because people dont know what they are doing or want twice the stock MSP motor output without upgrading the rods.

 

[Lodivigo]

The FS isnt bad when you have realistic power goals and are a good tuner.

+1! We could definitly be worse off, at least it's got a forged crank and an iron block.

I want someone to rotorize a msp. imagine a MSP with a turbo rx7 motor...ah sweet dreaming...

I love my 7, it's my ugly but fast (for an N/A) daily driver.

 

[LordWorm]

Im sure it was just cheaper to make them FS. The FS isnt bad when you have realistic power goals and are a good tuner. Most blow because people dont know what they are doing or want twice the stock MSP motor output without upgrading the rods.

oh couldn't agree more - i'm a firm believer that just about any motor can be made to make astronomical power with the right amount of money thrown at it

Theres a sport compact dragster over here (proper ex alcohol dragster) that runs some crappy old fiat engine and makes big power....

But the FE3 is a much firmer base to start with.....is more capable of sustaining high RPM (which is really the FS' Achilles heal - long stroke and relatively short rods means that no matter what you make the rods out of they are liable to let go if you try for anything like 8500+ rpm....)...

FE3 would of offered us all a better platform. Its better for the NA guys, its better for the turbo guys to start with....

Thats not to say you can't MAKE the FS a crazy race motor and pull huge numbers out of it (assuming the G series box doesn't bite you in the backside)...but theres a good deal more work to be done from the get go.

 

[LordWorm]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3317640#post3317640 <-- proof the FS can make stupid power

 

[03.5MSP]

One of the rescent things that is kinda bothering me is the fact that MaxxMazda blew his engine rescently. He had quality parts and his car was tuned but still, it happened. The possible cause as he mentioned was the intake mani routing/path for the 4th cyl causing it to over heating.

 

[Sveivo]

I concur.... Hence, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOPYWx2MZU

I know this guy went forged, but I don't know how much boost he's runnin'! If my MSP can do this in a couple of years, I'd call it done

We all need to remember that big power is a waste if we can't put it to the ground effectively. I don't see myself rolling around on a set of slicks just so I can throw down a Mustang from light to light (braindead. I'd rather walk away from that Mustang going down a twisty road with plenty of motor to stay ahead on the straights. Not that I'd ever drive that fast on public roads (thought)

It says 15 PSI in the comments on the upgraded turbo.

 

[03.5MSP]

One of the rescent things that is kinda bothering me is the fact that MaxxMazda blew his engine rescently. He had quality parts and his car was tuned but still, it happened. The possible cause as he mentioned was the intake mani routing/path for the 4th cyl causing it to over heating.

Here is what im talking about for those of you guys that dont know yet.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123679008

 

[jeffmsp]

with a j and s you sure wouldnt be having that problem with cyl #4.

 

[BOOSTR]

Running 18psi with 91octane doesn't help the situation either IMO no matter what auxilary systems you have. Too many variables at play to definitively reach conclusions on that one.

 

[crashkelly]

Running 18psi with 91octane doesn't help the situation either IMO no matter what auxilary systems you have. Too many variables at play to definitively reach conclusions on that one.

+1

 

[03.5MSP]

Im always in search of answers and want to hear from people who have experience and that are willing to help out. So I have another question regarding the FSDE and engines in general. It has to do with engine sleeving. And in light of Miguel wanting to sleeve this FSDE everyone recommended other wise.

I remember one of the guys one here that had his FSDE built and also got it sleeved. Now this was the first time I have heard of anyone ever sleeving the FSDE, and the reason why is because the stock block is NOT tapered. He further explanation that the re-sleaving is to prevent piston slap as oem cylinders are not tapered. Plus that FSDE made 330whp at 12psi, which is not bad.

Post ur comments.

 

[littlemimus]

one more thing, our cars werent made for straightline speed, it was made for the twisties xD be happy that ya got one of the better handling cars ever made. if some1 talks smack, tell them that u want to race them in the twisties xP

lolz thats exactly what i tell people. anyone can dump absurd amounts of money and go fast in a straight line. takes a good driver to run a track though.

 

[03.5MSP]

lolz thats exactly what i tell people. anyone can dump absurd amounts of money and go fast in a straight line. takes a good driver to run a track though.

That already been well established, but does not answer any questions about getting our blocks tapered, sleeved, pros and cons of both.

 

[LordWorm]

Im always in search of answers and want to hear from people who have experience and that are willing to help out. So I have another question regarding the FSDE and engines in general. It has to do with engine sleeving. And in light of Miguel wanting to sleeve this FSDE everyone recommended other wise.

I remember one of the guys one here that had his FSDE built and also got it sleeved. Now this was the first time I have heard of anyone ever sleeving the FSDE, and the reason why is because the stock block is NOT tapered. He further explanation that the re-sleaving is to prevent piston slap as oem cylinders are not tapered. Plus that FSDE made 330whp at 12psi, which is not bad.

Post ur comments.

Sleeving is generally done for 2 reasons: strength, and rigidity.

In an alloy open deck block, sleeves and a block guard will assist in preventing the block from twisting under load (which, you know, should be avoided!)

Sleeves are also generally made out of exotic materials, that are capable of dealing with higher stresses and head loads - so you can go with a smaller wall thickness, get higher displacement, and not crack the block. This is the typical reason for doing it in a closed deck iron block.

Also, sleeving basically means an end to reboring a block. If you kill a sleeve, you literally pull it out, and press fit a new one. Really simple.

The reason everyone (myself included) was telling miguel to avoid it, is that retrofitting the engine to accept sleeves would probably require compromising the engine's cooling system. Generally when sleeves are fitted, the bores are bored so large, that the cylinder walls are totally removed. Sleeves are then fitted, and cemented in place - deleting the water jackets. That is absolutely fine if you are interested in running the engine for a few seconds on a quartermile, but is absolute insanity on a street motor.

Also, due to the strength of the sleeves, and the fact that the material is of different composition to the block, if the sleeves are not fitted correctly, they can (and often do) crack the block under expansion....

Sleeving an iron block is a pretty extreme measure to take...i'd only do it if you wanted to go for some form of pure insanity motor that you expect to rebuild every other weekend

 

[03.5MSP]

Sleeving is generally done for 2 reasons: strength, and rigidity.

In an alloy open deck block, sleeves and a block guard will assist in preventing the block from twisting under load (which, you know, should be avoided!)

Sleeves are also generally made out of exotic materials, that are capable of dealing with higher stresses and head loads - so you can go with a smaller wall thickness, get higher displacement, and not crack the block. This is the typical reason for doing it in a closed deck iron block.

Also, sleeving basically means an end to reboring a block. If you kill a sleeve, you literally pull it out, and press fit a new one. Really simple.

The reason everyone (myself included) was telling miguel to avoid it, is that retrofitting the engine to accept sleeves would probably require compromising the engine's cooling system. Generally when sleeves are fitted, the bores are bored so large, that the cylinder walls are totally removed. Sleeves are then fitted, and cemented in place - deleting the water jackets. That is absolutely fine if you are interested in running the engine for a few seconds on a quartermile, but is absolute insanity on a street motor.

Also, due to the strength of the sleeves, and the fact that the material is of different composition to the block, if the sleeves are not fitted correctly, they can (and often do) crack the block under expansion....

Sleeving an iron block is a pretty extreme measure to take...i'd only do it if you wanted to go for some form of pure insanity motor that you expect to rebuild every other weekend

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to post, you can never learn too much. Its guys like you that make this forum better and better.

Any thoughts on tapering the block? is there really any need for it when building an engine?

 

[CustomMSP]

Marco,

You can also remove the VTCS rod that runs through all of the runners in the stock IM and only plug up the outside holes. This allows for equalization of the incoming air across all of the cylinders. I'm currently running this setup and have confirmed that it works by examining the spark plugs.