heat soak so bad?

[SeR_Cyclops]

So, Ive been wondering how bad heat soak is and every thing i mean i raced my friend in his 2000 Celia gts and he pulled as soon as i went into third i was right with him through first and second but as soon as i hit third he pulled, this is after two hours or so of driving so i was wondering how bad heat soak really is and also my cold side hard pipe is cracked its one of the stock ones and it broke lol, ne ways how bad is heat soak really.

 

[orng1]

Did you repair the pipe (glue it), what is your boost? Heat soak does suck bad with the stock side mount. I never realized that you could gain HP from an intercooler. I just thought it would maintanin the HP but wow what a diference when I first installed my FMIC. I gained a little more boost and pulls hard all day.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

the boost gauge wobbles between 5-6.5 psi with the pipe broke.

 

[sandspeed]

heatsoak is pretty awful with the stock smic....at least get an upgraded smic if stay at stock psi.

 

[orng1]

Try fixing it, even if you do decide to replace it at least you'll still have a working stock pipe. An upgraded side mount intercooler is perfect for most people. You should be able to hold up well or beat a celica with a few simple mods. I had just a mid pipe back exhaust, CAI, and a MBC, I could beat a lot of modded cars in my area.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

it just really pisses me off that my car falls on its face in third gear i mean daym!!!

 

[orng1]

it just really pisses me off that my car falls on its face in third gear i mean daym!!!

Try fixing the pipe. When I added the MBC it really helped out to steady the boost in the upper RPM. It held the 8psi I wanted, maybe a little more than that on cold mornings but still pretty good.

 

[1moreMPH]

you won't be able to get any decent power out of the MSP without an upgraded IC. In fact in my opinion it would actually be more efficient and powerful if you just took out the stock SMIC and ran a pipe straight from the turbo to the TB...but that's another can of worms.

Heat soak is a BIG freakin deal. On the dyno, I myself and others that i have seen have lost ~6-12hp between runs due to heat soak alone. And that is with a couple of minutes with the engine off cooling down a little bit; AND with front mount intercoolers. heat soak's a b****, it pwns your car more than you realize.

That, and the stock SMIC doesn't even flow well, thus sapping even more power in the upper gears where the airflow is huge.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

so which is better fmic or side mount cuz your saying that the fmic heat soaks the most? i thought it was the other way around

 

[ItsSlow]

If you get a front mount at least get one that has a 3in core.. The thicker they are, the better they cool.. At least, thats how I understand it..

 

[Speed3.5]

so which is better fmic or side mount cuz your saying that the fmic heat soaks the most? i thought it was the other way around

no what he said was different than what you understood.

his saying: even with a FMIC he noticed loss of power on the dyno where the engine gets hot as hell from the constant hard runs.

your saying: so even FMIC catches a lot of heatsock ?

The real deal: SMIC is the one who's prone of heatsoaking more ,specially the stock one. FMIC is the one that'll give you the best cold air and will sustain much more resistance toward heat on longer runs.

If you plan to stay at stock boost level than the least you could do to maintain the power is upgrade the stock side inter cooler to a biger+better SMIC other wise its best to get FMIC, your choice here.


as far as getting killed on street , your's is not as bad as mine.

I went against a 93 MT PROBE body but engine was swaped, a friend of mine.
On roll, from 30mph 2nd gear, we go and i was even untill i go to 3rd and he pulls hard on me and you can picture the rest.
He has some slight modification done to the N/A v6 2.5l engine.

 

[1moreMPH]

^ correct. FMIC will cool better, and give you more power, and much harder to heat soak. upgraded SMIC is sufficient for low boost levels, but i would still recommend an FMIC due to almost-equal-pricing once you get bov + hardpipes.

Also...i must disagree with the thicker core suggestion. Surface area is much more important and THAT will cool your charge air better. Once the air starts passing thru the core with hot air flowing through it from the turbo, the ambient cross air heats up more and more as it travels through the intercooler.

I know that's a little tough to make sense, but basically that first inch of the FMIC has great cooling. The second inch is ok, but less. By the 3rd inch or so, the core is quite hot and the cooling ability is greatly reduced. past 3" is not so good cooling.

Surface area will give you more of that "1st inch" cooling with more ambient cross air flowing through the intercooler. That will also heat soak less, and cool a lot more. So surface area is most important to an IC, not necessarily depth.

that's probably more than you were asking for, but there ya go. I'd rather have a almost-perrin-size core, that is only an inch thick; versus having a hiboost-size core that is 4 inches thick. If that makes more sense for ya. Ask any questions if you need any more explanation.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol ok thats what i thought i figured the fmic would be cooler just cause it makes more sense that something with nothing blocking the air flow would cool better than something tucked away.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

so what brand intercooler do you think would have the most sufficient core size such as the Perrin you explained, what I'm asking is give me like a list lol starting from best to worst.

 

[fr0st]

there was a thread about FMIC vs. SMIC.. i ordered a SMIC since im never gonna go above 10 psi

another factor you guys failed to mention is where you live.


surely if you live in texas where the ambiant temps is around 80-90 all the time, the car is gonna pull alot less than if you live like here where this time of year you get 70 F on days and 60F at night.

another thing is you guys speak of heatsoak on dynos and yes that counts.. but on the street when the car is moving it doesnt have the same effect..

the problem with the stock SMIC shoe box if not just heat soak, but resistance to CFM as in the the flow of air.. the more yo flow in the cooler the harder it is to flow some more..

a SMIC like a custom msp SMIC will not only have less heatsoak but will flow ALOT more air and more easily..

the bigger the intercooler ( FMIC) the more lag it adds since the turbo has to fill in all the space before building boost.. so it lags more...

if you put 2 msp side by side at 70 F, one with a SMIC(aftermarket) and the other with a FMIC, i bet the SMIC wins on the quarter

am i crazy to think so ?

 

[Speed3.5]

there was a thread about FMIC vs. SMIC.. i ordered a SMIC since im never gonna go above 10 psi

another factor you guys failed to mention is where you live.


surely if you live in texas where the ambiant temps is around 80-90 all the time, the car is gonna pull alot less than if you live like here where this time of year you get 70 F on days and 60F at night.

another thing is you guys speak of heatsoak on dynos and yes that counts.. but on the street when the car is moving it doesnt have the same effect..

the problem with the stock SMIC shoe box if not just heat soak, but resistance to CFM as in the the flow of air.. the more yo flow in the cooler the harder it is to flow some more..

a SMIC like a custom msp SMIC will not only have less heatsoak but will flow ALOT more air and more easily..

the bigger the intercooler ( FMIC) the more lag it adds since the turbo has to fill in all the space before building boost.. so it lags more...

if you put 2 msp side by side at 70 F, one with a SMIC(aftermarket) and the other with a FMIC, i bet the SMIC wins on the quarter

am i crazy to think so ?

you're not crazy but theoritically you are correct , on the other hand that 1/4 would depend on the driver as well .

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

and who cares about going fast when you see a fmic they look sick as hell

 

[fr0st]

and who cares about going fast when you see a fmic they look sick as hell

life is not all about *bling bling* (smash)

some are after performance and optimisation..(thumb)

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol yeah i guess but smic's are so expensive for the size....

 

[1moreMPH]

i don't think you can say that MSP vs. MSP, one with smic and the other with fmic; all else equal the smic will win. That is a very vague statement.

Honestly, it really depends on your goals for the car and what your setup is. If you plan on modding very lightly (intake, legal exhaust, less than 10psi, cool climate, daily driven then SMIC may be right for you, and yes your car could be faster with it than with a large fmic. Many high-hp drag cars run with some style of smic, or no IC at all...but they are not daily driven and thus prone to heat-soak as many msp's are.

If you plan on boosting a lot though, a fmic is a necessity in my opinion. As well as if you have big plans, or want true top end power. Depending on the setup it can be less "peppy" with a fmic, but the top end and flow will be much greater. In my opinion a small fmic (hiboost or BEGi size) is still a better option than the smic... but what's again relevant is that i do live in Texas, where it was 110 degrees the day i got tuned for example.

My experience with the Hiboost has been wonderful. Before i got it i did a lot of research and decided that that would be the ideal size for me. It's relatively small so there's virtually no lag, because i really liked the 'quickness' of the msp and didn't want to take away from that. I did want a fmic just because it cools so much more and in texas that's important. I did not feel the need however for such a big core such as the perrin because i didn't see the need. After having the hiboost through most of the summer now, on occassion i DO wich i would have gone a little bigger (perhaps PG size?) for even cooler temps and bigger numbers as my goals have changed a little. but i am still happy overall with the hiboost, and in my mind NOTHING beats driveability.