Header Thread - Availability, price, quality....

[tonkabui]

the EGR bung won't bend. you're gonna have to get a new one welded into place then either JB weld the one that comes with the header or find an appropriate cap for it.

 

[20EVOLUTION01]

One more question before I take the plung...........
I know I ask to many questions but I want to be right.

Any year from 93 to 97 from the 626 2.0 right. I will then have to weld the 2nd O2 Bung, if not on, and modify the end where the flange is that connects to the exhaust. Also I meant to say if the EGR line was bendable. It looks like it could bend. If not oh well.

 

[tonkabui]

One more question before I take the plung...........
I know I ask to many questions but I want to be right.

Any year from 93 to 97 from the 626 2.0 right. I will then have to weld the 2nd O2 Bung, if not on, and modify the end where the flange is that connects to the exhaust. Also I meant to say if the EGR line was bendable. It looks like it could bend. If not oh well.

oh, the EGR line isn't bendable either. we tried. it's easier to just make a new EGR bung. as for the 2nd O2 sensor, i say just get the one with 1 O2 bung and make a test pipe with the second O2 bung. then use the MIL eliminator. i am not sure if nogales has emissions, cause if it doesn't, don't bother with a cat unless you don't want to smell unburnt gas exhaust. it does stink.

 

[20EVOLUTION01]

oh, the EGR line isn't bendable either. we tried. it's easier to just make a new EGR bung. as for the 2nd O2 sensor, i say just get the one with 1 O2 bung and make a test pipe with the second O2 bung. then use the MIL eliminator. i am not sure if nogales has emissions, cause if it doesn't, don't bother with a cat unless you don't want to smell unburnt gas exhaust. it does stink.

(cool) thanks. Yea we don't have emissions here in Nogales. We get charged for it in the tags/license renewal. Only $1.50 a year. Its the Air Quality Charge. I guess I am going Catless. Well never mind about the EGR Valve Line. I will have to find a Bung for it but I found one I liked. Check it out.

This One will fit Right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&rd=1&item=2480806770&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

 

[20EVOLUTION01]

(poke) Hey, I am going to install my header today! I cant wait! ......(2thumbs)

 

[P5 Rally]

the OBX comes with both O2 bungs, but a MIL eliminator is required regardless when you remove the 1st cat!!

 

[shinzen]

Hmm, now the other benefit outside of emissions would "possibly" be that I could stay in sts class, if I put the precat in at a different location, since the factory emission control system would still be in place...

 

[dr_sarcasm]

I'm running Kevin's shorty "bundle of snakes." Perfect fit, excellent build and finish...

Installed it and ran a dyno check. Surprised the hell out of all of us during pulls. No increase in WHP, no increase in torque over previous non-header runs with Injen CIA and Magnaflow CB. Go figure. ES claims 7 hp increase and around 10 ft/lb increase in twist. Called Liphard and told him what the dyno said, even though the car is quicker by the clock. He was baffled; couldn't figure the dyno readings.

I was the test car for that particular design (2.0L) - as posted by me on this board and on the other U.S. board last summer.

I am quite surprised that ES is still selling that shorty, given that my dyno results at that time (once again, that was in the summer of '03) showed there were no noticeable gains to be had with that particular design (my car dynoed at 103.9whp without, and 104.5whp with the shorty installed; similar numbers in the torque department...). Some of you may recall that my wording used to describe my experiences was something to the effect of "...they're going back to the drawing board..."

Quite frankly, the only header I've ever seen REAL results (read: dyno sheets) from is AWR.




dr_"getting Ractive, 'cause it's cheap and the gains are just the same as the more expensive ones"_sarcasm.

 

[shinzen]

That's the part that kills me about the ES header- claims are crazy- 8-10whp and 20lb/ft- instead a total of zip and zip- that really kills their credibility for me

 

[Gen1GT]

Mo, did you have the stock cats and midpipe still? That's why it's misleading. You could put huge lumpy cams in the FS, and you're not gonna see gains because the head, exhaust and intake manifold aren't optimized for them. The same reason my 2.5" exhaust only got me 3 peak hp, because I'm still running the stock exhaust manifold, which has a 1.75" outlet. If I had done header first, THEN exhaust, my exhaust would have netted me more like 7-9whp.

I wouldn't judge the ES shorty header until the first cat and stock downpipe are replaced with 2.25" piping.

 

[dr_sarcasm]

I wouldn't judge the ES shorty header until the first cat and stock downpipe are replaced with 2.25" piping.

You're right Josh, other than the shorty, the rest of the car was bone stock. Just to let you know, I'm not passing judgement on the header itself, nor the craftsmanship. The puzzling thing was that Cruisin had a shorty header installed from ES (an earlier design), that produced noticeable results - so I went in with skewed expectations, I guess.

You are, in all likelyhood, quite right - the gains would be had if you replaced everything around the shorty (high flow cat, bigger exhaust tubing, etc. etc.); the only thing that miffs me is that ES still claims those power numbers with just the shorty in place...



dr_"they should put a disclaimer stating what you pointed out"_sarcasm.

 

[p5sundevil]

well i dont know about that. if Es was posting those supposed gains on their site I would Assume(unless they state otherwise, which they didnt) that that is on a stock car.

Also the point of a shorty header is to keep the stock cat, so even if you plan on getting a DP with cat later they should not tell you you can buy their header but dont expect gains untill you also buy the DP.

I dont know I wasnt expecting much but at least 2-3whp more since our stock mani is so bad. but who knows.

 

[Gen1GT]

well i dont know about that. if Es was posting those supposed gains on their site I would Assume(unless they state otherwise, which they didnt) that that is on a stock car.

Also the point of a shorty header is to keep the stock cat, so even if you plan on getting a DP with cat later they should not tell you you can buy their header but dont expect gains untill you also buy the DP.

I dont know I wasnt expecting much but at least 2-3whp more since our stock mani is so bad. but who knows.

I'm sure the stock manifold IS bad, but it doesn't mean it's the weakest link. With a cat and crappy downpipe right after it, it wouldn't matter HOW well designed the header is. A 200whp engine is only a 50whp engine blowing into a straw. No different on how I only got 3whp peak with my 2.5" exhaust. It wouldn't matter HOW good my exhaust was, when the stock manifold is so bad. You need to work on your weakest link first.

 

[akhilleus]

the weakest link is definately the downpipe/midpipe. Besides being cast(weight) the manifold supposdly flows ok, But between the 1st cat and 2nd cat the tube diamater is less than 2", 1.8" i think. So even when i gutted my first cat i only saw minimal gains since it was all dumping into such a small opening. I think eliminating that will be one of the best benefits of my header.

 

[tonkabui]

yeah, the downpipe is pathetic. the midpipe's connection to the downpipe is equally unimpressive, but by the time it gets to the cat, it's ok. by the opening of the pipe after second cat, it's 2" big, so definitely eliminating the primary cat and downpipe will free up the most hp. then what is important is tuning the runners and collectors on the header to have the maximum exhaust gas velocity in order to further maximize gains. but getting rid of the cat and downpipe will yield the greatest results, no matter what header design you go with.

 

[p5sundevil]

Yah as of right now I have all but deicded to get the Ractive header and go from there, but I also like the 626/probe 4-2-1 OBX header with custom test pipe...should end up costing about the same either way....
damn indecisions,

 

[Bumble G]

bump for a thread I think should be stickied

 

[illwill84]

Ok.

You mention that Wagner offers direct bolt on replacements for the downpipe as well as the midpipe. They also offer high-flow cats.


Which of these pieces would I need on top of the shorty header??????

I am looking at getting some gains without going crazy with install. I just want something that will bolt on and be done with.

 

[scorch70]

Ok.

You mention that Wagner offers direct bolt on replacements for the downpipe as well as the midpipe. They also offer high-flow cats.


Which of these pieces would I need on top of the shorty header??????

I am looking at getting some gains without going crazy with install. I just want something that will bolt on and be done with.

Unless you live in a state that does emissions testing, you should just go with a full header. Install isn't that difficult.

If you do have testing, then you can get the downpipe and midpipe with cat. Should see some gains from it.


scorch70

 

[Mike R]

Even with testing, the full header can easily pass. Maryland only plugs into the computer to find the O2 readings(on OBDII cars) . So if the O2 sensor fix is used it will be fine, unless they are super picky and actually check for a cat. Most of the time they won't. You wouldn't believe what I have gotten past the VEIP.