Going Forged?

[mzspeed14.0]

Hey guys, I am hoping to buy forged rods and pistons pretty soon. I will stick to standard compression and bore. What do you think is a fair price for a shop to put them in for me? and if any of you know of a good place around atlanta? What are some of the consideration/precautions i need to take? supporting mods?

my current setup is - electronic boost controler, exhaust cutout, hard pips w/ bov. and hopefully a custom smic soon. My goal is 250whp

any advice would be much appreciated.
(drinks)

 

[neox.286]

while some agree and some disagree here is a precaution:
dont go with standard bore...chances are that your cylinders arent exactally to spec, at least get it blueprinted and re-sleeved

I personally did go with standard bore, and soon found that it destroyed one of my CP pistons later down the road...others have not had problems, its just a risk you take

if you get it blueprinted and everything checks out then go with std bore, but I doubt it will check out



forged internals are not something to be taken lightly, even the best of shops may not put it back together perfectly...theres always a risk of it not working out...

on another note, is 250whp really worth the cost for this? your going to spend at least 1200-1500 on the internals, and an additional bit for gaskets and other various parts...labor can range anywhere from 800-5k depending on the shop....is having that extra oomphf really worth that much money?


not saying you shouldnt, I love the fact that my engine is (I certainly hope) pretty damn bullet proof compared to stock, as is my tranny....but after about 8k into this project (I did the labor myself, thats just parts) I could have used that money and gotten a car that is faster stock....its a massive project, and not for the feignt of heart


if you do go through with it, do all of the research you can here...theres MANY different things to avoid, many steps that will save you lots of time and money, and theres a wealth of people here who have done this

good luck in whatever you choose to do!

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

Hey guys, I am hoping to buy forged rods and pistons pretty soon. I will stick to standard compression and bore. What do you think is a fair price for a shop to put them in for me? and if any of you know of a good place around atlanta? What are some of the consideration/precautions i need to take? supporting mods?

my current setup is - electronic boost controler, exhaust cutout, hard pips w/ bov. and hopefully a custom smic soon. My goal is 250whp

any advice would be much appreciated.
(drinks)

Stock bore is something i went with and know of another veteran member here that opted to do the same bore. Its been over a year with no problems and im running a t3/t4 @ 1 bar. Not to mention for a while i wasnt tuned and it still held up the beaten running as rich as it was or lean.

Supporting mods? Engine management and even some 440 injectors. For 250 hp you have enough to support it. Then after all that is said and done enjoy the ride (thumb)

 

[2.0t03speed]

i went with .020 over because thats all wiseco had in stock standard bore was on backorder lol

 

[mzspeed14.0]

thanks alot for the input guys. as for the 250whp, i want it to be a "strong" 250 so i will never have to worry about blowing up (-;

still need lots of input on what i should pay for labor, and if theres any good places in/around atlanta.

again, any advice is very much appreciated. Thanks again guys!

 

[2.0t03speed]

do the labor your self if you know how to thats what im doing

 

[mazdaspeedwerx]

why not just go with a .20 over? you might as well. I doubt you walls are in good shape

 

[mzspeed14.0]

why not just go with a .20 over? you might as well. I doubt you walls are in good shape

isnt it more costly?

 

[2.0t03speed]

not really all you have to do is get the cylinders bored over and you have to get them honed in the 1st place so why not

 

[i like speed]

Why would you tear your motor apart, for performance, and not bore it out?

 

[mzspeed14.0]

good point, ill definatly look into it. it may come down to whatever i can get my hands on for less moneys. oh, i prob could do the install, i just cant afford to break anything (-; i guess im more of a bolt-on kinda guy. thanks again.

 

[i like speed]

I was half joking but does anyone know the most displacement you can get out of our motors?

 

[shane02pro5]

There isn't enough wall between cylinders to do much more than .020 over!

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

There isn't enough wall between cylinders to do much more than .020 over!

you sure? i remember being told .040.

 

[shane02pro5]

Well discussions about it not being worth the trouble of having such little clearance and cracking the block. I haven't seen anyone with more than .020 over??

 

[neox.286]

why would you go .040 over? the only reason you are overboring is for safety, not for power...why run a riskier setup?

mzspeed14.0:
doing the work is not that difficult with these motors...they are very simple motors and everything really just bolts up

that being said, it is a LOT of work and if you dont know what your doing theres a good chance that you can screw it up

if you feel confident with a wrench do it yourself, if not then have someone build the motor for you

true story: with my build I opted to do it myself....last year around this time (when I bought the car) I didnt know two cents about how to work on cars, you could have asked me what the spark plugs are for and I wouldnt have been able to tell you....through a lot of trial and error, and researching on 3 or 4 different forums, I was able to do all the work myself and whenever the majority of nor-cal msp guys or protege guys need something done they wind up calling me to help em out...granted, I learn quick, but my point is its not impossible to do it yourself, and youll save costs on the labor but you might wind up spending more on parts if you screw something up

 

[JDM Sam]

Standard bore is fine. You don't overbore unless necessary. If you are pulling a perfectly running motor the cylinder walls will be in good shape.
Your machinist or builder will measure the cylinder with a gauge to make sure it's in spec. All pistons come with a spec sheet for piston to wall clearance when doing the hone.

You don't run .040 over unless you are using a bored out block already at .020. It's basically the last final use of that block you will get. It is not recommended to bore it over past .020.

 

[i like speed]

sorry for my ignorance but .020 is measured in what? I've always heard it measured in displacement. "My dad had a Ford Fairlane 400 bored to 460" like so. I guess it does make more sense to measure the width of the cylinder (i'm assuming that's what being done) cuz you can also increase the displacement through longer stroke.

Damn I miss that car...

 

[JDM Sam]

hundredths of an inch

 

[jwehrheim]

I also live in Atlanta, just bought a MSP with a thrown rod. I am pulling the motor probably this weekend. Just need to take out the drive axles. I will be tearing down the motor to check the crank, head, cams, etc. Replace parts and machine what is necessary. I still need to find a quality machine shop, which shouldn't be too hard.

As to rebuilding a motor. Yes you can do it yourself, but I would recommend having the right tools to verify your bore roundness, clearance, crank roundness etc. Many years ago, a friend taught me how to build motors properly and have since built 2 motors. I invested in a dial bore gauge, mic's, cc, etc. to verify that the machine shop and my work is done properly.