global warming

JOS3

Member
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05 22V mazda3
has anyone else had a chance to read the newest issue of time magazine? it has a very interesting article on global warming and the changes we could see in our lifetime.

i think an article like this is well overdue. scientists have been saying global warming is happening for decades yet no one seems to care. so im wondering how many of you care and, in your opinion, how serious you think the issue is?

discuss.
 
i didn't read the article, but i think global warming is overhyped and is only partly effected by man's involvement. i think the earth's natural heating and cooling cycles play a much larger part but then environmentalists see that for the last 20-30 years the temperature has been going up they automatically assume it's man's fault. they often lack the big picture view and only look at a small period in time to support their point, thinking they can change the world. imagine if man were created and lived its entire life during the last ice age, the environmentalists would have blamed the end of the ice age on pollution and man just because the environment changed from what it was previously
 
jred321 said:
imagine if man were created and lived its entire life during the last ice age, the environmentalists would have blamed the end of the ice age on pollution and man just because the environment changed from what it was previously

"Imagine if" statements only suggest your lack of understanding of basic reasoning and logic. Just because we can envision a scenario in which simple observations can lead to an incorrect conclusion, does not mean that the simple observations of scientists that think there is human-induced global warning are incorrect.

Personally, I am not in a position to make a claim one way or the other. But I can say that I think that everyone can benefit from reduced emissions that are a side effect of more efficient energy use. "Imagine if" CAFE standards were doubled, then we'd use less foreign oil, the price of gas would drop because of decreased demand, and we'd also pollute less. Or, "imagine if" we invested in designing modular nuclear reactors that could be constructed and upgraded in a an inexpensive and efficient manor, then the price of electricity would go down and might even make coal and oil power plants obsolete. As a side effect there would be less reliance of foreign oil AND reduced emissions.

And don't get me started on SUVs...there has been all kinds of effort placed on getting already efficient small cars to become more efficient. But a little math will tell us that you can save more gas annually by making a 10mpg SUV into a more efficient 11mpg SUV then you can if you take a 30mpg small car and make it into an uber-efficient 40mpg car. It would be soooooooo easy to mandate a BIG increase in SUVs but enviros have a hard time convincing anyone there would be a big benefit. Its almost like we, as Americans, are okay with inefficient vehicles if we know that there are hybrids on the market.

Okay so three ways to beat pollution problems:

1. Development of modular (inexpensive) nuclear power systems phase-out of oil and coal power plants by 2050.

2. Pollution tax on all vehicles based on the quantity of pollution emitted (similar to EU measurements of pollution) per mile x miles driven. When you get your car inspected they note the miles and thats how your tax is calculated. Drive a more efficient vehicle for fewer miles and you pay less tax. Adding $0.01 tax to each mile driven would result in an average tax of $150 per vehicle and, based on 2004 National Highway Administration data, result in a total tax of $28B annually (based on 2.8 trillion driven miles). That money could be pumped back into federally funded research into more fuel efficient cars. Thats way more than all automakers spend on R&D annually!

3. No more non-florescent light bulbs. Period.
 
NVP5White said:
"Imagine if" statements only suggest your lack of understanding of basic reasoning and logic. Just because we can envision a scenario in which simple observations can lead to an incorrect conclusion, does not mean that the simple observations of scientists that think there is human-induced global warning are incorrect.
i'm not envisioning a make believe scenario where the world was cold and then warms up, it did happen. the world was all but covered in ice and then in a relatively short period of time it all melted. i'm simply changing the time frame in which that natural occurrence happened to say, now. much different than taking a situation which has not happened yet and pulling it out of thin air just because in theory it's a good idea

we do not have the records from long enough ago to determine the natural heating and cooling cycles of the earth, but we know that the earth does, in fact, naturally warm and cool. just because the earth is warming up and there is more of a certain type of pollution now does not necessarily definitively link the two.

i have no doubt that emissions are increasing "global warming" or maybe speeding it up, i just don't think they're the sole cause like many scientists/anti-oil people would like you to believe and nature itself is playing a very large role
 
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Talking about Global Warming issue on a car forum? It's like asking the oil companies to help find cleaner alternate fuels.

There is so much evidence that has been presented about the accelerated warming of the earth it's really not funny. We don't notice it much here, but talk to the Swiss, Latin Americans, and other people who live in countries that have glaciers and alpine areas and you'll see how bad it's really getting.

No, it's not nature doing it's thing.
 
National Geographic said:
The new study builds on research published last year. Studying sea level changes in corals and organic materials from Vietnam and Barbados, scientists concluded that an influx of freshwater from the Antarctic 14,000 years ago increased sea levels by an average of 66 feet (20 meters) over 200 years, about 100 times faster than today. There is evidence that debris was coming off the Antarctic as a result of the melting of the ice sheet.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0317_030317_iceshelf.html

last i checked, SUVs didn't cause that to happen. is pollution helping? no. is it definitively the sole cause? absolutely not
 
yes the earths heating cycle does change but man is speeding it up rapidly. We went over this in my upper division Ecology class last semester with a whole bunch of tests and evidence that in fact human involvement is causing/speeding global warming pretty damn fast.
 
NVP5White said:
1. Development of modular (inexpensive) nuclear power systems phase-out of oil and coal power plants by 2050.


Inexpensive nuclear power? Isn't that an "imagine if"?

Pretend SAT question:

Oranges are to nectarines as inexpensive nuclear power is to:

a) memo79 becoming a billionaire in the next 48 hours
b) cheap oil
c) quick pullout of US troops from Iraq
d) a 3rd gen Mazda Protege boosting 20psi daily on a stock bottom end
e) all of the above
 
So can anyone outline the imperical evidence that man's involment is the cheif contributor to global warming?
 
Witchdoktor said:
I was planning on living forever. Thanx for ruining my day.
ha, there's an old guy at my gym who i've seen wear a shirt a few times that says "I'm planning to live forever. So far so good"
 
Are we (humans, pollution, etc) involved in global warming? yes.

Are we the sole cause? No.

Do we matter? In geologic time, very little. In global warming time, very much so.

Take a look at the dinosaurs. The earth they lived in was MUCH warmer than our earth. Who knows if the earth is just warming up to those temps again? There was an mini ice age in the 1300's. We could be warming up from that. Sure we're polluting more, and yes we need to stop these activites, but we are not the only cause by far. Actually the earth could be headed for another ice age. The increase of warmer ocean water, screws up the currents = heavy snowfalls = possible ice age.

Just my $0.02.
 
Did anyone see 60 Minutes a couple of Sundays ago? There was a very interesting interview with one of the scientist that works for NASA on what is really going on. Homedude said that if we don't begin to decrease our output in 10 years, it will be too late to turn it around.
 
jred321 said:
i'm not envisioning a make believe scenario where the world was cold and then warms up, it did happen.

The "imagine if" statement in your previous post did not happen:

"imagine if man were created and lived its entire life during the last ice age, the environmentalists would have blamed the end of the ice age on pollution and man just because the environment changed from what it was previously"

Man has evolved and has lived for generations during a period of releative warmth. At the very least, humans that were alive towards the end of the last ice age lacked a language and societal framework advanced enought for taking scientific observations about climate. The "global warming" theory has not been developed in response to earth's climate coming out of an ice age.
 
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