GI: N/A Downpipe w/ Hi-Flow Pre-Cat
- Thread starter Subghetto
- Start date
Just an update to my first post. As I said in my first post I bought both the Wagner downpipe and middle pipe both with hi-flow Random tech cat.
So a couple weeks ago I put my car on a dyno. As it happened it was the same dyno I put my car on 2 summer ago. At that time it pulled a whopping 94.5 whp (sarcasm here ) in third gear, At that time my only mods were a K&N drop-in and my Bosal cat-back.
Now on its second pull, It did 102 whp@5850 rpm and 106 torque@4500rpm. But the most interesting things is the torque curve, it begings at 82@2500 rpm and keep it above that number until 6200 rpm. In all its gave me 7.5 whp with only these two exhaust piece and an ebay sri with a decent flowing filter.
I know these number don't seems too much but a couple LX2.0 stock pulled 95(sri) and 96.5(Injen) whp (stock otherwise) and from my own baseline it was worth it for me.
Just wanted to shared this little bit of info to show that it give you something even if you keep your stock exhaust manifold.
So a couple weeks ago I put my car on a dyno. As it happened it was the same dyno I put my car on 2 summer ago. At that time it pulled a whopping 94.5 whp (sarcasm here ) in third gear, At that time my only mods were a K&N drop-in and my Bosal cat-back.
Now on its second pull, It did 102 whp@5850 rpm and 106 torque@4500rpm. But the most interesting things is the torque curve, it begings at 82@2500 rpm and keep it above that number until 6200 rpm. In all its gave me 7.5 whp with only these two exhaust piece and an ebay sri with a decent flowing filter.
I know these number don't seems too much but a couple LX2.0 stock pulled 95(sri) and 96.5(Injen) whp (stock otherwise) and from my own baseline it was worth it for me.
Just wanted to shared this little bit of info to show that it give you something even if you keep your stock exhaust manifold.
Guys I was just wondering is there anyway I can take these hi-flow cats and make them replace the pre-cat??? I have my stock manifold so maybe some one can make a template out of the flange add some piping then weld the hi-flow cat makes some bungs and then finish-up the piping with a flange to bolt-on to the mid-pipe. The only draw back is that I ? if it will throw a CEL and how much this would cost me???
Here are the cats- http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/02converters.asp
Here are the cats- http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/02converters.asp
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flat_black
Member
The precat is TINY in length, and none of those cats would fit. Most that would will be around 100-350 dollars, depending on quality... Plus a lot of sizing for the flange and the three bolt bottom flange. It only allows for about 7-8" for the cat, plus you'll need a short transision for the cat to collect properly. All that being said, it'll probably end up costing you about 3-400 dollars or so, just for the precat, without the upper portion of the manifold.
I'm sorry to say that there is no update I won't give up though I e-mailed wagner but he still has'nt gotten to me I also emailed random technology but no answer from them either. It's probably going to take longer than I thought if you can go with a full 4-1 and mil you might as will do it because sadly this is'nt going anywhere soonDimitrios said:
I also e-mailed both random technologies and wagner again. If I wasn't so sick from the flu I would call wagner and ask him for all the info on that cat he is using. If anyone wants to call the # is (717) 846-1570 and if someone gets any information post it here as it would help me as well as others interested in this. Thanks.
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*UPDATE* I e-mailed random technology and got a quick answer this is what they said. Here is the e-mail I sent them and below it is their response.
From: David Diaz
To: tech@randomtechnology.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:33 PM
Subject: Hi-flow pre-cat
I was just wondering what kind of random technology cat do you guys use for a mazda protege 5 pre-cat the hi-flow n/a d I just want to use that cat to replace my pre-cat . A part # would also be very helpful. Better yet what cat do you guys sell to www.wangermotorsports.net I have tried contacting them to tell me the cat they use but no luck so far so can you tell me what cat it is? Here is a pic of it if it helps you guys out any
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32091
Here is their response:
I'm not going to be of much help, because we don't build the converter/downpipe shown in the photo. We supply the converter, but it started life as a universal fit 3". Wagner builds that particular unit, so you'll have to contact them. I called the number on their web site and got right through.
So once I start feeling better I will contact wanger and hopefully he will give me the info I seek.
From: David Diaz
To: tech@randomtechnology.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:33 PM
Subject: Hi-flow pre-cat
I was just wondering what kind of random technology cat do you guys use for a mazda protege 5 pre-cat the hi-flow n/a d I just want to use that cat to replace my pre-cat . A part # would also be very helpful. Better yet what cat do you guys sell to www.wangermotorsports.net I have tried contacting them to tell me the cat they use but no luck so far so can you tell me what cat it is? Here is a pic of it if it helps you guys out any
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32091
Here is their response:
I'm not going to be of much help, because we don't build the converter/downpipe shown in the photo. We supply the converter, but it started life as a universal fit 3". Wagner builds that particular unit, so you'll have to contact them. I called the number on their web site and got right through.
So once I start feeling better I will contact wanger and hopefully he will give me the info I seek.
I was just thinking can an msp cat be fitted to replace the stock pre-cat and would it be same s*** or a bit better. I'am just going crazy now thinking of anything that will replace that big ol nasty POS w/o throwing me a CEL and staying emissions friendly also any pics or input would be apprciated. I just had this crazy idea today and was wondering if it could somehow work.
Looks like the Random Technology 8000 Series universal should be it Sub.
http://www.randomtechnology.com/universal.html
Andy may not be the way to go at Wagner. Beau at MAM has made some kick ass parts in the past as well...
I'm sorta regretting buying my Ractive header now...I may not install it after all....
http://www.randomtechnology.com/universal.html
Andy may not be the way to go at Wagner. Beau at MAM has made some kick ass parts in the past as well...
I'm sorta regretting buying my Ractive header now...I may not install it after all....
Yeah same here all I need to know is what damn cat that is? Then have someone fab me some flanges then boom hi-flow j-pipe right there. Yeah Andy's hi-flow n/a downpipe is way way overpriced I mean $350 that's insane. I hope the random cats don't go for that much then all I think you need is a bung welded in the cat and boom no CEL and emissions friendly with a nice increase in power.Dimitrios said:
$350 actually isnt that bad. That is less than many headers, and you are also getting a hi-flow cat, which can retail anywhere from $150+, especially for random tech. Also those flanges are a b****. I wanted to have some work done and most exhaust shops refused to work with those flanges. Either way good luck. The chances of you finding something for less than Wagner, are in my opinion doubtful. I still dont understand why, if u want to remain emissions legal, you dont just get a header and have a hi-flow welded into the midpipe with the o2 behind that? It would probably be cheaper, however i think i have mentioned this before.
The problem is if they ever do a visual inspection and see no pre-cat then I would fail. I've also heard that you throw a CEL even if you welded the o2 behind the mid-pipe it just takes longer for it to appear. Also I'am getting rid of the second cat and would much rather just have better hi-flow pre-cat.akhilleus said:
Actually you wouldnt fail visual. Firstly, cause at least in NJ, which is fairly strict they dont check under the hood, Secondly they do check under the vehicle with mirrors, and would see the two cats. Thirdly you wouldnt throw a CEL to my knowledge since the o2 would be operational and isnt dependent on location. I am pretty sure as well that one could pass emissions with a cel fix as well since the obdII readers only check voltage, which would be within norm as long as there is no CEL. But of course it is your choice.
Functionally, is there any difference between the 1st (pre-cat) cat and the 2nd cat? I mean, does the replacing the 1st cat with a high flow and then replacing the 2nd cat (or gutting it) make sense?
I think going the route of least resistance makes sense (in a solution here), but fighting CELs every few hundred miles via eliminator setups and spark plug anti-foulers don't make it so. Of course there are those of us that are concerned with maintaining ULEV standards but still increasing power output on N/A.
Putting the O2 after the cat (assuming using a header) is actually a good idea, since all that the O2 needs to check is that the exhaust has been catalyzed. But then, the entire visual issue comes into play (and would also make it an issue if you ever decided you wanted to bring the Protg back to stock at some point): how are you going to show 2 cats in a system that has a header and only hi-flow welded into the mid-pipe?
Last night I was looking for some stuff and came across: www.janspeed.com They make some nice stuff for Minis and the likegood stuff.
As for the flanges, youre better off fabricating your own (or asking Andy to sell them after all, he sells the header flanges w/o issue). Im going to use his header a template and the end of the Ractive header I have now as templates and just have them fabricated per some prints.
D
I think going the route of least resistance makes sense (in a solution here), but fighting CELs every few hundred miles via eliminator setups and spark plug anti-foulers don't make it so. Of course there are those of us that are concerned with maintaining ULEV standards but still increasing power output on N/A.
Putting the O2 after the cat (assuming using a header) is actually a good idea, since all that the O2 needs to check is that the exhaust has been catalyzed. But then, the entire visual issue comes into play (and would also make it an issue if you ever decided you wanted to bring the Protg back to stock at some point): how are you going to show 2 cats in a system that has a header and only hi-flow welded into the mid-pipe?
Last night I was looking for some stuff and came across: www.janspeed.com They make some nice stuff for Minis and the likegood stuff.
As for the flanges, youre better off fabricating your own (or asking Andy to sell them after all, he sells the header flanges w/o issue). Im going to use his header a template and the end of the Ractive header I have now as templates and just have them fabricated per some prints.
D
Sub, you may want to check this site out:
www.burnsstainless.com
304 Tubing bent already: http://www.burnsstainless.com/304tubing/304tubing.html
Transitions: http://www.burnsstainless.com/304tubing/304tubing.html (for say between the header/manifold and the cat and then from the cat to the 90 deg. bend).
www.burnsstainless.com
304 Tubing bent already: http://www.burnsstainless.com/304tubing/304tubing.html
Transitions: http://www.burnsstainless.com/304tubing/304tubing.html (for say between the header/manifold and the cat and then from the cat to the 90 deg. bend).
