Hey guys, just got back from a little 1 week rampage through Germany and France and had a kick checking out all the cars they drive over there. My favorite brands (appearance wise) were probably Alpha Romeo, Peugeot, Opel (why can't GM bring cars like that here?) and Smart...neat little cars. Oh and I ran into a beautiful, black Alpha Romeo Spider......the sweetest classic car that I've ever seen in person. Will post the pic later.....oh yeah and the women weren't bad either
Europe-only car brands
- Thread starter M=SP^2
- Start date
L
loj68
werd.......I love Alfa's......we just went to the Vintage Sportscar Races at VIR a few weeks ago and there were a LOT of sweet old Alfa's. My buddy (rich kid) in high school had a new 1987 Quadrafoglio that was really fun.
for example mazdaspeed isn't avail in europe 
and i bet my () that a lot of other japanese car models can be bought in the us.... what makes me really sad is that a lot of car models always come with less hp to europe, maybe because of the emission laws here..
can't think of a "real" american car which we were missing..but that's because there are only very few available down here (chrysler)...
and i bet my () that a lot of other japanese car models can be bought in the us.... what makes me really sad is that a lot of car models always come with less hp to europe, maybe because of the emission laws here..
can't think of a "real" american car which we were missing..but that's because there are only very few available down here (chrysler)...
i don't knoe myself...but considering it's a small hatch, it probably has a VR6 engine or some engine that's turbo'd. that's how they usually make it an 'S' model. S6 has a V8 and S3 is half the size...go figure. hot hatch...which brings to mind the peugeot 24v 206. i forgot the name...really fast mid-mount engine w/ 4wd in a hatchback !!!
something kewl coming from europe: Lotus Elise
something kewl coming from europe: Lotus Elise
Dr.Sound said:.....which has dual Garrette T25 turbos
whaaa ? i thought it was powered by the 1ff-ze ? err celica gt-s engine ? hmm vic i think u're thinking about the lotus esprit...it's not being put into production ne more but they're bringing the naturally aspirated lotus elise to the states in 2005 i believe.
@alexlitov... in short terms:
base price for 2.0l p5 was about: 19.000
plus turbo charger + additional work: 5-6000
plus tv certification : about 1000 (i'll explain why)
plus the car guarantee gets blown the day you manipulate the engine...
= that's why... makes about 25grand for a car that has no guarantee... that is a BIT 2 much effort..
in long terms:
in europe any built car and almost any aftermarket part for a car needs an official certification. this certification costs a LOT of money which the parts/cars manufacturer has to pay..
a) there is a general "EU-certification" that states that the car/part conforms with major technical/safety/emission restrictions within the european union... the car/parts manufacturer applies for such a certification by affirming that the car/part complies with the major european restrictions. for doing that he must prove certain things like exhaust emission datagrams a.s.o.... if the application is successful the car/part gets a number by which it is legal to use it within the whole european union... (like my car has a number like e1*98/14*000181*...)
the costs for such a eu-certification can cost a lot(!) of money depending on how many testifications must be given to prove the conformity but may easily go up to 100.000 for a small aftermarket part...
this is one possibilty to get something legal on your car...
b) national authorities (like german TUEV) can also provide a certification by testing the parts under all the aspects which are important for NATIONAL restrictions (which don't have to be congruent)... if the TUEV states that the parts (respectively the re-built car with this parts) conforms with german restrictions you may legally drive your car here..
the problem is that if you don't have a EU wide certification (which is only availbe for parts who apply to the main restrictions all the european countries accepted) you need a national certification which can be really really expensive for a single person...
if you want to put a turbocharger on your engine the TUEV will test everything which could be affected by that (everything which is important for security/emissions etc)... they will test how the vmax changes (=you may need a new brake system or in worst case a different aerodynamic setup),they will test how exhaust emissoins change (you will have to pay different taxes for your car because a part of the taxes apply to the exhaust emissions of your car), they will test if your exhaust system is not too loud (91db is the max right now i think) and kinda stuff like that... it's not only complicated and expensive, it may also FAIL! such a certification fails if the changes on your car affect the security/emissions of your car a lot and cannot be compensated..for example if it is not possible to get new a better brake system for your car).. then the aftermarket parts have to be de-installed.. otherwise you lose the right to legally drive this car..
this certification system for aftermarket aerodynamik/performance parts is highly complicated and expensive (ESPECIALLY in germany!!!).. that's why not many producers offer parts for cars which are not very popular in germany...cars like the mazda 323 / protege ... so if you want a turbocharger for a car like the protege you will have to pay a lot for the turbocharger and additional works (like brakes etc) and you will have to pay quite an amount to get it legalized... and some tests you just CANNOT perform as a single person (like tests which are required to get a certification for any kind of lights on your car...)
you might be lucky if you drive a very common car because then some manufactureres do the TUEV tests and get a general TUEV certification that makes the legalizing for a single person much easier and cheaper.
btw:
audi s3 ..
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-d/audis3.html
it's a nice car actually... can also be pushed over 300hps quite easily by chiptuning...
base price for 2.0l p5 was about: 19.000
plus turbo charger + additional work: 5-6000
plus tv certification : about 1000 (i'll explain why)
plus the car guarantee gets blown the day you manipulate the engine...
= that's why... makes about 25grand for a car that has no guarantee... that is a BIT 2 much effort..
in long terms:
in europe any built car and almost any aftermarket part for a car needs an official certification. this certification costs a LOT of money which the parts/cars manufacturer has to pay..
a) there is a general "EU-certification" that states that the car/part conforms with major technical/safety/emission restrictions within the european union... the car/parts manufacturer applies for such a certification by affirming that the car/part complies with the major european restrictions. for doing that he must prove certain things like exhaust emission datagrams a.s.o.... if the application is successful the car/part gets a number by which it is legal to use it within the whole european union... (like my car has a number like e1*98/14*000181*...)
the costs for such a eu-certification can cost a lot(!) of money depending on how many testifications must be given to prove the conformity but may easily go up to 100.000 for a small aftermarket part...
this is one possibilty to get something legal on your car...
b) national authorities (like german TUEV) can also provide a certification by testing the parts under all the aspects which are important for NATIONAL restrictions (which don't have to be congruent)... if the TUEV states that the parts (respectively the re-built car with this parts) conforms with german restrictions you may legally drive your car here..
the problem is that if you don't have a EU wide certification (which is only availbe for parts who apply to the main restrictions all the european countries accepted) you need a national certification which can be really really expensive for a single person...
if you want to put a turbocharger on your engine the TUEV will test everything which could be affected by that (everything which is important for security/emissions etc)... they will test how the vmax changes (=you may need a new brake system or in worst case a different aerodynamic setup),they will test how exhaust emissoins change (you will have to pay different taxes for your car because a part of the taxes apply to the exhaust emissions of your car), they will test if your exhaust system is not too loud (91db is the max right now i think) and kinda stuff like that... it's not only complicated and expensive, it may also FAIL! such a certification fails if the changes on your car affect the security/emissions of your car a lot and cannot be compensated..for example if it is not possible to get new a better brake system for your car).. then the aftermarket parts have to be de-installed.. otherwise you lose the right to legally drive this car..
this certification system for aftermarket aerodynamik/performance parts is highly complicated and expensive (ESPECIALLY in germany!!!).. that's why not many producers offer parts for cars which are not very popular in germany...cars like the mazda 323 / protege ... so if you want a turbocharger for a car like the protege you will have to pay a lot for the turbocharger and additional works (like brakes etc) and you will have to pay quite an amount to get it legalized... and some tests you just CANNOT perform as a single person (like tests which are required to get a certification for any kind of lights on your car...)
you might be lucky if you drive a very common car because then some manufactureres do the TUEV tests and get a general TUEV certification that makes the legalizing for a single person much easier and cheaper.
btw:
audi s3 ..
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-d/audis3.html
it's a nice car actually... can also be pushed over 300hps quite easily by chiptuning...
Oh wow. In the U.S., generally we only have to care about emission inspection, although there are some states that do safety inspection. I don't think any of them really bother you if your car is fast, but doesn't stop fast enough... LOL!
TUV isn't so bad if you think of their sole purpose... public safety... their mentality of "everything is unsafe until proven otherwise" is a good thing because it is the complete opposite here in America and we have tons of questionable parts (safety and legality-wise) that just gives you the :wtf: also you forgot to account for the fact that vehicle performance and reliability is more demanded in Europe, particularly Germany, due to driving habits (140km/h+ on autobahn)... things like aerodynamics, brakes, suspension, engine reliability from higher RPM and heat, lighting, etc
MOT in the UK could be better or worse.... and in some ways, the Japanese "sha-ken" is worse... the ridiculous prices!
EU emission rules are very different than American ones because here in America, cold start emissions are looked upon in close scrutiny and the emission control systems are depended upon solely... in EU, other things such as low-sulfur fuel account as part of their emission rules.... a lot of Japanese cars sold in Europe with the equivilant engine as the US counter parts typically has the same or slightly more power from my experiences...
it's true that UNECE testing of lighting, signaling, emissions, and crash safety requires lots of time and money, but their testing proceedures and requirements ensure things are VERY safe and in some ways better than the American system... nothing automobile related can be sold until it has received appropriate ECE or EU certification approvals (which approval number must be displayed) and any additional approvals or requirements from local governments (TUV, MOT, etc)... as said before, in America, you can sell bulls*** and you can get away with it until the government takes notice (HID retrofits and altezza lights as an example) because it is assumed that what you are selling has been deemed legal and doing so it is claimed so
in addition, with the advent of Japan joining the UNECE (years ago), cars from Japan can be imported to Europe relatively easy (the UK has been doing so for years) with a few modifications (headlights, gas filler fitting, rear fog light, etc).... not true in America because the emissions, crash safety, and lighting and signaling laws are VERY different which prevents such grey imports to be financially practical... the laws were written so to discourage such importation (even though it says you CAN)... such as the 150% bond you must post to customs, having to certify your car to crash worthyness by having to produce 3 samples of it to have it crash tested in front, side, and rear... it makes emissions certification looks like a cakewalk... also because of the different lighting and signaling laws, many of such devices must be modified or custom made and installed in its place... all of this bulls*** simply because the US does not believe in a unified global standard and are afraid of eroding their bad car market (blame the unions and the big 3) to many superior foreign vehicles
so... would you rather have TUV, UK MOT, Japan MLIT checking every car to make sure nothing falls off their cars or blows up, or not have any of that, have "freedom" and see rust buckets spewing black smoke with bumper and hoods hanging by bungee cords, busted lights, mangled body panels, and missing wheel lug nuts on the road?
and having UNECE around is GOOD... this allows for a strong globally usable safety standards for cars that promotes reduced costs both to companies and private individuals in importing/exporting vehicles... companies can make ONE set of equipment for the cars thats legal ANYWHERE in the world, and private individuals don't have to worry about the legal hassles of getting their car road legal when they private (grey) import their favorite car to their country
MOT in the UK could be better or worse.... and in some ways, the Japanese "sha-ken" is worse... the ridiculous prices!
EU emission rules are very different than American ones because here in America, cold start emissions are looked upon in close scrutiny and the emission control systems are depended upon solely... in EU, other things such as low-sulfur fuel account as part of their emission rules.... a lot of Japanese cars sold in Europe with the equivilant engine as the US counter parts typically has the same or slightly more power from my experiences...
it's true that UNECE testing of lighting, signaling, emissions, and crash safety requires lots of time and money, but their testing proceedures and requirements ensure things are VERY safe and in some ways better than the American system... nothing automobile related can be sold until it has received appropriate ECE or EU certification approvals (which approval number must be displayed) and any additional approvals or requirements from local governments (TUV, MOT, etc)... as said before, in America, you can sell bulls*** and you can get away with it until the government takes notice (HID retrofits and altezza lights as an example) because it is assumed that what you are selling has been deemed legal and doing so it is claimed so
in addition, with the advent of Japan joining the UNECE (years ago), cars from Japan can be imported to Europe relatively easy (the UK has been doing so for years) with a few modifications (headlights, gas filler fitting, rear fog light, etc).... not true in America because the emissions, crash safety, and lighting and signaling laws are VERY different which prevents such grey imports to be financially practical... the laws were written so to discourage such importation (even though it says you CAN)... such as the 150% bond you must post to customs, having to certify your car to crash worthyness by having to produce 3 samples of it to have it crash tested in front, side, and rear... it makes emissions certification looks like a cakewalk... also because of the different lighting and signaling laws, many of such devices must be modified or custom made and installed in its place... all of this bulls*** simply because the US does not believe in a unified global standard and are afraid of eroding their bad car market (blame the unions and the big 3) to many superior foreign vehicles
so... would you rather have TUV, UK MOT, Japan MLIT checking every car to make sure nothing falls off their cars or blows up, or not have any of that, have "freedom" and see rust buckets spewing black smoke with bumper and hoods hanging by bungee cords, busted lights, mangled body panels, and missing wheel lug nuts on the road?
and having UNECE around is GOOD... this allows for a strong globally usable safety standards for cars that promotes reduced costs both to companies and private individuals in importing/exporting vehicles... companies can make ONE set of equipment for the cars thats legal ANYWHERE in the world, and private individuals don't have to worry about the legal hassles of getting their car road legal when they private (grey) import their favorite car to their country
tailland said:
New Threads and Articles
-
The infotainment system sometimes just scrolls on its own
- By Gooogle
- Replies: 1
-
CX-5 still flashes key fob battery low after battery change
- By Gooogle
- Replies: 4
-
2013~2016 Mazda IDS v136 - Software to Update/Change?- By dan25man
- Replies: 0