Dyno done, time for cams.

[JustMe]

Today I finally managed to get on a normal dyno.

the numbers were following:
Power 145.8hp@6500rpm
Torque 173.1Nm@4500rpm
Whp 107whp@6000rpm

here is a dynochart: http://www.hot.ee/mazda323/dyno032005.jpg

Car has gone trough following modifications:
Intake system with cone filter.
4-1 long header, 2.25 full exhaust with 3 straight trough resonators.
Head port&polish, 10.1 compression.

Next plans are the cams. Now , as I understand correctly my intake cam is 241 duration with 8.6mm lift and exhaust is 230 duration with 8.1mm lift.
(specs from Edwin's page, european model has same cam with FS-ZE )

What should be the future cams specs? Intake around 280 with 10.2 lift and exhaust then 270 and 9.7 lift? Or is that too much? Also I have to raise fuel pressure since I was running a little lean at the moment and that would be worse with bigger cams.

 

[Gen1GT]

10mm lift will necessitate stronger valve springs. But those numbers look like a decent street cam.....

 

[JustMe]

10mm will allready need stronger springs? Hmm, does anyone offer stronger valve springs for FS?

This 280 is more than just a street cam I think.

Also what is interesting that my peak Hp is right at the redline , which is probably thank for the long 4-1 header? So there should be something more over there if I can get myself adj. camwheels?
Also is that jump around 5300rpm the one when intake manifold opens the other runners?

 

[Super Matty P]

only 107whp with a P&P head and 10:1 compression??? Something doesn't add up.

 

[JustMe]

My stock compression is 9.7:1 (european 323F not US P5) . And that P&P will probably not be so good before the cams and higher fuel pressure, since I'm running lean at the moment.

only 107whp with a P&P head and 10:1 compression??? Something doesn't add up.

 

[Gen1GT]

By good street cam, I mean you won't have to idle at 2000RPM for your engine to run. 10mm isn't crazy high lift, but with higher RPM operation it's enough lift to fatigue the stock springs. By the looks of your dyno, I'd say you need another 1000RPM of powerband.....

 

[tonkabui]

only 107whp with a P&P head and 10:1 compression??? Something doesn't add up.

you can have hi comp pistons all you want, but without proper breathing from the cams, they're worthless. someone on the forums has the jspec pistons but no cams and saw little to no improvement. port and polish jobs are dependent on the porting and polishing. you can take a dremel to it and see some gains, or you can have it honed for max gains, but will also be putting out max money. a port and polish job on our engines wouldn't really help anything anyway, unless you're pushing some massive power. the aluminum blocks these days are pretty efficient as is.

 

[Installshield 2]

I am confused though...where is your 145hp and 107whp numbers coming from...If you are getting a DIN bhp correction on your dyno, that still seems like you are losing way too much to the wheels...or are you just figuring with 107whp what your bhp rating is, roughly...

your dyno shows the 145hp number...man I am lost...point being, North American FS's with a full exhaust are usually pushing around 115whp, if the piping is correct...

 

[JustMe]

That lower green line is whp line. Why i have so much lost on the wheels, i don't know, some of it has probably doing something with the winter tyres i had on.

Haven't seen any dyno with 115 whp with only exhaust, also Andrew is running low whp numbers.

I am confused though...where is your 145hp and 107whp numbers coming from...If you are getting a DIN bhp correction on your dyno, that still seems like you are losing way too much to the wheels...or are you just figuring with 107whp what your bhp rating is, roughly...

your dyno shows the 145hp number...man I am lost...point being, North American FS's with a full exhaust are usually pushing around 115whp, if the piping is correct...

 

[Super Matty P]

i didn't think about euro-spec compression. I would think that a decent P&P job would yield higher than 5-7whp though.

Truc, I agree about the P&P but extrude P&P on both head and intake with stage2 gasketmatching is only $960+shipping. That's a GREAT deal as far as I'm concerened. I plan on having it done just as soon as my new intake manifold comes in and I can source a spare head. I'll post B&A dyno's so we can get a "bang for buck" ratio.

 

[JustMe]

Andrew, tell me about your cam specs in language I understand So I could compare it to that stock lift and duration that I mentioned in the first post

 

[twilightprotege]

sounds like we all need ecu's!

and since no body answered - eibach makes valve springs. check out corksport for detailed.

cam specs. i'd be inclinded to say 270deg on the intake and 280 on the exhuast and leave the lift the same. also, try to work out @ 0.050" lift specs as they are more useful than seat specs. and like i said, you'd definately need an ecu!

 

[JustMe]

I must say that my whp is low, unfortunately none of the other dyno charts has engine hp for comparison.

So you say i should leave the lift same but do duration about 270-280?
And I know that I need an ecu but only option would be greddy e-manage but I haven't seen it working on NA P5. And so far I have to do without it.

sounds like we all need ecu's!

and since no body answered - eibach makes valve springs. check out corksport for detailed.

cam specs. i'd be inclinded to say 270deg on the intake and 280 on the exhuast and leave the lift the same. also, try to work out @ 0.050" lift specs as they are more useful than seat specs. and like i said, you'd definately need an ecu!

 

[Gen1GT]

you can have hi comp pistons all you want, but without proper breathing from the cams, they're worthless. someone on the forums has the jspec pistons but no cams and saw little to no improvement. port and polish jobs are dependent on the porting and polishing. you can take a dremel to it and see some gains, or you can have it honed for max gains, but will also be putting out max money. a port and polish job on our engines wouldn't really help anything anyway, unless you're pushing some massive power. the aluminum blocks these days are pretty efficient as is.

It's kind of the other way around. You need higher compression to take advantage of lumpy cams. You can raise the compression ratio in any car, and it will increase hp and tq throughout the entire powerband like an increase in displacement. A higher compression ratio just takes the same air/fuel and packs it into a smaller size before igniting it.

From what I know, the guy with J-Spec pistons was having ECU issues.

You can get good gains from 'porting and polishing'(I don't much like that term, it's too general and inaccurate. Not a whole lot of porting goes on these days) on any engine. True, today's DOHC aluminum heads flow well, but they're still produced with cost involved, so there's plenty of room for improvement. Have the bowl area shaped under the valve pockets is a start, as well as removing rough castings and polishing the exhaust ports. You can deshroud the valves(which I believe helps more than just larger valves) and polish the combustion chamber(to reduce detonation). You can add material to the quench area to help combustion. Honing things out for 'max gains' will most likely do nothing but kill you bottom end, and possibly not even give you any gains.

 

[gino]

...eibach makes valve springs.

PAECO also has inners/outers for high-lift setups. Thye recommend their spring sets for the FS (626 in their catalog) cams they supply. David has PAECO setup in his engine (unfinished).

Andrew, have you lost bottom end on the cams you're currently running?

 

[akhilleus]

You should probably just leave the intake alone. On exhaust 260-270 @.010" 210@.050" .350" lift should be plenty. You can convert that into MM if necessary. Any more than that and you will lose too much low end and your peak will be very high. Also you must get cam gears, possibly before you even get the cams. Finally I don't know what the deal is with your hp numbers, whats the conversion from NM to lb/ft? If that was figured out it could shed some light on the proper whp numbers. Also you should take it to the track to add some clarity to these numbers.

 

[JustMe]

Cam gears are coming the same time with cams. 173Nm = 127lb/ft (10Nm=7.37lb/ft). With cam gears I shouldn't leave the intake cam alone I think, so I could bring that power down a little?

I will take it on track but not before 2 months, since we have snow here at the moment.

You should probably just leave the intake alone. On exhaust 260-270 @.010" 210@.050" .350" lift should be plenty. You can convert that into MM if necessary. Any more than that and you will lose too much low end and your peak will be very high. Also you must get cam gears, possibly before you even get the cams. Finally I don't know what the deal is with your hp numbers, whats the conversion from NM to lb/ft? If that was figured out it could shed some light on the proper whp numbers. Also you should take it to the track to add some clarity to these numbers.

 

[Installshield 2]

That lower green line is whp line. Why i have so much lost on the wheels, i don't know, some of it has probably doing something with the winter tyres i had on.

Haven't seen any dyno with 115 whp with only exhaust, also Andrew is running low whp numbers.

Well true...Andrew's numbers are a little lower too, but theoretically for his 1/4 mile times, he is a bit higher than 128whp, or whatever his last pull was...

I will try to dig up some full exhaust dyno's...which include a header and cat-back...I know over a year ago somone had an AWR header and a RB cat-back that put down 114whp...and a few other combo's were giving over 110whp...

 

[twilightprotege]

my bottom end - and i love this - like stock! hehehehehe i have pretty well lost no bottom end even with big cams and big exhaust. the reasoning - well designed intake cam. only ever so slightly larger than the j-spec on duration and a bit bigger on the lift.

cams, i was meaning 270 duration on the intake, 280 on the exhaust, and leave the lift as you stated for each.

my track times - i'm really hoping to get into the 14's without touching the ecu. that would be a great accomplishment i think. with drag radials on 15's, the bigger injen intake (i have the 2.5 and not the newer 2.75 but getting it (swapping mine for it really)), fidanza flywheel, clutchmasters stage 1 clutch, rr-racing underdrive pulley and maybe a little bit of weight reduction, i hope to get into the 14's. then with a microtech lt-8s...

 

[JustMe]

So you mean cams should be Intake around 270 with 10.2 lift and exhaust then 280 and 9.7 lift?

Will try that then

EDIT: The company http://www.dbilas-dynamic.de/ which is doing the regrounding for me suggested the following:

We recommend for using the car on street a camshaft set with inlet 256 and exhaust 266.
With this camshaft set the car has a smooth running.

For using the car in sport/rally we recommend a camshaft set with inlet 268 and exhaust 272. With this camshaft set the car has a rough running.

Andrew, is your car running roughly?