Downshifting

[coyfish]

Ive been watching a bunch of youtube videos of speed 6's and I notice most of the time these guys downshift the rpms just jump up. Its impossible to rev match so perfectly so that means they are just dropping gears w/out rev matching. I dont know maybe its just me but when i downshift sometimes I dont give it enough gas(blip) to raise the revs so I have to give it a "double blip."

Also what is the point of double clutching? I normally just clutch in . . . stick neutral, rev match, put it in gear. This way you only pull out the clutch once. Whats the point of pulling the clutch out and then back in when its already in neutral?

 

[60181]

Ive been watching a bunch of youtube videos of speed 6's and I notice most of the time these guys downshift the rpms just jump up. Its impossible to rev match so perfectly so that means they are just dropping gears w/out rev matching. I dont know maybe its just me but when i downshift sometimes I dont give it enough gas(blip) to raise the revs so I have to give it a "double blip."

I don't know why they aren't rev-matching. Young newbs ? I found after just a couple weeks with the car that rev-matching on downshifts was pretty intuitive. The only time I do it though is to make an extreme passing maneuver. I usually just pop her in neutral and hit the brakes. If traffic begins to move while I'm rolling, again, I find it pretty intuitive to put her back in gear without bobbling any heads.

Also what is the point of double clutching? I normally just clutch in . . . stick neutral, rev match, put it in gear. This way you only pull out the clutch once. Whats the point of pulling the clutch out and then back in when its already in neutral?

No need to double clutch in the MS3 or any modern cars really. Even good 18 wheel drivers don't need to. I just got back with my neighbor from a quick 24hr trip I tagged along with him on for the hell of it on and he showed me in his semi that they don't even need to use the clutch at all while rolling. He only needed it from a dead stop but once he was past the first three gears, it was all simply rev matching and moving the gear shift. Pretty sweet to see it done by a 25+ year pro. Made it look way too easy.

 

[coyfish]

Cool so to rev match when downshifting you dont need to double clutch. Yeah most of those videos im pretty sure people arent revmatching. You cant tell with the camera but I know if you do downshift (without rev matchin) your going to snap your neck with the whiplash .

 

[bova80]

you should enver have to double clutch EVER! if you want to rev match while down shifting push clutch in tap gas pedal to get revs up a bit while moving to lower gear then remove foot from clutch.

 

[coyfish]

do you guys downshift while slowing down ? or do you just pop it in nuetral just before you stop? People have told me that I should downshift but honestly I would rather stress out my brakes than stress out my engine any more than necessary. Seems like it uses more gas downshifting because you have to blip the gas every gear.

 

[gooniac33]

Heel toe shifting and double clutching are 2 different things. But with our cars you should only need to do the Heel toe shifting to keep from making the car lurch. When driving hard this is the best way to set up for a corner without upsetting the chasis. If you wanna see it done right check out Best Motoring magazine from japan. They show the foot work involved with driving at speed.

 

[Sveivo]

While neither double-clutching nor rev-matching is required, they are ways of being nice to your car.

Kind of like using synthetic oil instead of dino. I'm sure the car would go 200K on dino oil. Wouldn't you agree?

I like to double clutch on drastic downshifts because then the synchros don't have to work as hard. It's a similar thing with rev-matching. It saves your clutch.

While neither of those techniques are required, I think you are intelligent to realize that they are good practice.

 

[Sveivo]

Heel toe shifting and double clutching are 2 different things. But with our cars you should only need to do the Heel toe shifting to keep from making the car lurch. When driving hard this is the best way to set up for a corner without upsetting the chasis. If you wanna see it done right check out Best Motoring magazine from japan. They show the foot work involved with driving at speed.

I dunno man, most of the ones I've seen, you can see the guy lifting the left foot, which means he's double-clutching. I think heel-and-toe is pointless without double-clutching. Why would you need to blip the throttle when going into a lower gear? The only reason is to double-clutch.

 

[m4tic]

do you guys downshift while slowing down ? or do you just pop it in nuetral just before you stop? People have told me that I should downshift but honestly I would rather stress out my brakes than stress out my engine any more than necessary. Seems like it uses more gas downshifting because you have to blip the gas every gear.

brakes are cheaper to replace than the clutch.... when you downshift and wind up the engine to slow down, that action is the exact opposite of slipping the clutch when accelerating..... instead of the trans spinning up to match the engine speed, the engine is spinning up to match the trans speed..... and its unnecessary wear on the drivetrain...

 

[bova80]

thats why you rev match so you don't use the clutch as a break. and double clutching is stupid. why would you shift to neutral then rev up and then shift into gear? why wouldn't you just rev up while you have the clutch in and put it into gear?

 

[m4tic]

thats why you rev match so you don't use the clutch as a break. and double clutching is stupid. why would you shift to neutral then rev up and then shift into gear? why wouldn't you just rev up while you have the clutch in and put it into gear?

the double clutching part re-engages the tranny (while in N) to spin up the trans and this saves the syncros from wear

 

[chiefmg]

Rev matching (whether heel and toeing or not) saves wear and tear on the whole drivetrain. Double clutching used to be necessary in the days before synchros, not so much now. If it's something you want to do then that's fine.

As was said, modern brakes are more than adequate to slow down a car. Brakes and clutches are both wear items, brakes are easier to replace. However, there are some times when you want just a little slowing and it is okay to use engine braking. It is also helpful to downshift before or while braking if you are setting up for a corner (as in, you want to be able to power out). I know some people will say this is wrong, but you don't have to downshift each gear, you can skip some as long as you rev match. I have done this for years and have yet to break anything. YMMV.

 

[coyfish]

Yeah when I downshift I always rev match . . . dont feel like getting whiplash when the engine rmps jump up. Basically I just wanted to know if you slowed down normally (like to a red light) downshifting or just used the brakes. Seems like wearing the brakes and using less gas is better than using the engine / extra gas.