CX-9 Real MPG

The auto companies don't and cannot "inflate" this number, the way fuel economy is advertised is a legal requirement,!

Did you miss the news that Hyundai and Kia were caught inflating EPA numbers?
Look up google, please.

Testing can be done by automakers themselves (to fed set guidelines). Thus, the problem with Hyundai/Kia.
One of the models was scaled back by 6mpg highway!
 
Did you miss the news that Hyundai and Kia were caught inflating EPA numbers?
Look up google, please.

Testing can be done by automakers themselves (to fed set guidelines). Thus, the problem with Hyundai/Kia.
One of the models was scaled back by 6mpg highway!
I didn't catch that story, pretty interesting. They're providing debit cards to reimburse people for their additional fuel costs to date and will continue to replenish them for as long as they own the car along with an additional 15% for the inconvenience.

On the bright side, this LA Times article says that EPA audits "almost never turn up misrepresentations". Here's an excerpt (emphasis mine):

The EPA decided to audit the fuel economy claims made after receiving consumer complaints about Hyundai mileage estimates.

As the agency started to look into the issue, its staff observed discrepancies between its results for a 2012 Hyundai Elantra and what the automaker reported. That caused the EPA to expand its investigation by reviewing the data for other Hyundai and Kia vehicles.

The EPAs auditing of mileage claims by automakers almost never turns up misrepresentations. It has happened only twice since 2000, but this is the first time where a large number of vehicles from the same manufacturer have deviated so significantly, the agency said.
 
Yet the regulatory pressure is greater now to make or fudge higher MPG numbers, (which are spread across the automakers product range). And competition is intense.

It's good that Hyundai got called out. I think Mazda needs a spanking too.
 
Did you miss the news that Hyundai and Kia were caught inflating EPA numbers?
Look up google, please.

Testing can be done by automakers themselves (to fed set guidelines). Thus, the problem with Hyundai/Kia.
One of the models was scaled back by 6mpg highway!

Yes testing can be done by whoever, but the guidelines are clear. One of my good friends works at a 3rd party lab that does this testing, and I am personally a vehicle test engineer. The testing is a legal requirement, so sure you can put whatever number you feel like on the window sticker, but as the Hyundai/Kia example you provided shows it is illegal to do so and you will be penalized for it.

Yet the regulatory pressure is greater now to make or fudge higher MPG numbers, (which are spread across the automakers product range). And competition is intense.

It's good that Hyundai got called out. I think Mazda needs a spanking too.

In the Hyundai case there is proof that the numbers were inflated. Is there proof that Mazda has posted false numbers? My Cx-9 returns almost identical to the EPA numbers which is kind of coincidental. I've gotten as much as 5-7mpg higher than EPA numbers on previous vehicles.
 
>>In the Hyundai case there is proof that the numbers were inflated. Is there proof that Mazda has posted false numbers?<<

Yeah - my gas bill EVERY week. ;-)
 
I see you live in Hawaii.... I've never been to Hawaii, but I'm guessing that the terrain is a little different than it is here on the east coast. Fuel economy ratings don't account for differences in terrain or elevation, it's a standardized test. So far I've seen most people comment here that they get results similar to EPA ratings, and as posted above the user ratings on fueleconomy.gov all show a combined measurement within 1mpg of the combined rating.

What Hyundai/Kia did were to falsify documents to the government (and the public). There's no evidence I've seen that Mazda has done that.
 
It's just like driving anywhere else- only we go round in circles every 2 hours! ;-)
 
Well in that case it sounds like your CX-9 is defective. My combined MPG has been over 20mpg for about 2500 miles of driving and I have an AWD model. 23+ highway.
 
The fuel economy rating is not generated by Mazda or any other car company, generally testing is done by a third party to a specification set by the US Government. The auto companies don't and cannot "inflate" this number, the way fuel economy is advertised is a legal requirement, if you want that test changed take it up with the EPA not Mazda, GM, Ford or whoever. Also, real world results as always may vary. The window sticker number is supposed to give you a "reasonable" estimate of what an "average" driver might find in those conditions. Incidentally I have always found that I do better than the advertised value. For instance my previous daily driver, a RWD V8 Cadillac STS had an EPA rating of 22mpg highway, while I got 26-27mpg highway.

So far in the 2011 AWD CX-9 we are getting 22-24 highway and 20mpg combined (I get better city mpg than the Cadillac but worse highway, combined is about a break even). But I'm on the east coast, at low altitude, use mostly high-end gasoline (Shell, Exxon, BP etc... Shell/Exxon are generally the closest formula to "lab" gas)

If you live in a mountainous region, or at high altitude things will be much worse. The EPA numbers are just an indication and are best used as a standardized comparison for shopping. A window sticker difference of 1mpg is negligible, but a window sticker of 5-10mpg will give you an idea that one vehicle will be more economical than another.

Also, unless your version of highway driving is maintaining 75-80mph while driving through the rockies I'd be concerned about 17mpg... You might have some sort of mechanical problem!

It is widely known and published that the CX-9 is not tops in fuel efficiency. I get less than 17 in mostly city driving.

But--you are mistaken that the EPA publishes MPG numbers for all cars. I think you may have missed this story a couple of months ago:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/02/business/la-fi-mo-hyundai-kia-mpg-claims-20121102

South Korean automakers Hyundai Motor America and Kia Motors America overstated the fuel economy on nearly a million late model vehicles and will issue owners special debit cards to reimburse the extra money they are paying for fuel.

The error was announced Friday by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which monitors the fuel economy tests by automakers.

The mileage on most vehicle labels will be reduced by 1 to 2 miles per gallon, and the largest adjustment will be 6 mpg highway for the Kia Soul, federal regulators said. Both automakers will place new labels reflecting the corrected mileage estimates on cars currently at dealers.

Consumers rely on the window sticker to help make informed choices about the cars they buy," said Gina McCarthy, assistant administrator for EPAs Office of Air and Radiation. EPAs investigation will help protect consumers and ensure a level playing field among automakers.

The Korean automakers, which are siblings, and share automotive components and testing, said they had overstated fuel economy ratings for about 900,000 vehicles, or 35% of the 2011-13 model year vehicles sold through Wednesday.

They blamed procedural errors at joint testing operations in Korea for the problem.

I sincerely apologize to all affected Hyundai and Kia customers, and I regret these errors occurred, said Dr. W. C. Yang, chief technology officer of Hyundai/Kia research and development.

The automakers will issue personalized debit cards to owners of the vehicles. The cards will reimburse the customers for the shortfall in the companies mileage claims and what the EPA has found is the correct number for combined city and highway driving fuel economy rating.

Here is owner information for Hyundai and for Kia.

The payment will be based on the fuel price in their region where they live and on the miles they have driven. The cards will include a 15% bonus to make up for inconvenience caused by the incorrect fuel economy claims.

Hyundai and Kia will refresh the cards to continue to make up for the cost of the fuel economy error for as long as the owners of the vehicles have the cars. People who have once had the vehicles but no longer own them will be reimbursed using the same formula.

The EPA decided to audit the fuel economy claims made after receiving consumer complaints about Hyundai mileage estimates.

As the agency started to look into the issue, its staff observed discrepancies between its results for a 2012 Hyundai Elantra and what the automaker reported. That caused the EPA to expand its investigation by reviewing the data for other Hyundai and Kia vehicles.

The EPAs auditing of mileage claims by automakers almost never turns up misrepresentations. It has happened only twice since 2000, but this is the first time where a large number of vehicles from the same manufacturer have deviated so significantly, the agency said.

Its not clear how the action by the automakers will affect a lawsuit filed against Hyundai over fuel economy clams by Santa Monica-based Consumer Watchdog, a consumer group, in July.

The lawsuit seeks class-action status and wants to stop Hyundai from using gas mileage numbers in its advertising of the Elantra without government-mandated disclosures. It asks for unspecified damages on behalf of California residents who bought or leased 2011 and 2012 Elantras.

Hyundai denied the claims, issuing a statement saying, "Hyundai Motor America believes this case has no merit, as our advertising is accurate and in full compliance with applicable laws and regulations."

But on Friday, the company was reversing course.

Given the importance of fuel efficiency to all of us, were extremely sorry about these errors, said John Krafcik, chief executive of Hyundai Motor America. Were going to make this right for everyone, and well be more driven than ever to ensure our vehicles deliver outstanding fuel economy.
 
But--you are mistaken that the EPA publishes MPG numbers for all cars. I think you may have missed this story a couple of months ago:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/guides/FEG2013.pdf

A joint publication of the DOE and EPA which lists fuel economy for vehicles. Based on documentation provided to the agencies by the manufacturers, which is often done at a 3rd party test facility. This is the information that is on the window sticker, it is a number derived from testing to an EPA standard. If an automaker performs the test incorrectly or provides false information it is a falsification of documentation to the government the same as if you put the wrong income on your tax return.

As you see in the article you stated Hyundai/Kia claims that they did the testing wrong, and have taken responsibility. Whether this was an honest mistake, or they got caught trying to dupe consumers isn't clear, but as you can see providing incorrect information to the government is not taken lightly. Paying the difference in fuel economy of 6mpg at today's gas prices in cars at the Hyundai/Kia volumes is a significant penalty.

So to recap, fuel economy numbers are tested by the manufacturer or at the manufacturers selected 3rd party, as mandated by the EPA/DOT. Documentation is provided to the EPA/DOT/DOE which issues the "official" mileage sticker. Look at a window sticker, it says something to the effect of "EPA estimated fuel economy". While the EPA does not do the testing, they do audits from time to time as indicated. The EPA does publish this information on a government (.gov) website.

The original post in this thread indicated the author believed that Mazda is engaging in falsifying this information to the government based on poor fuel economy of his vehicle, but many others (including myself) have posted that we return mileage in the ballpark of the EPA estimate. This would indicate his individual vehicle has a fault, or his driving style is significantly different than the EPA test program.
 
Also from the above document, notice this section (some parts bolded)

"Your Fuel Economy Will Vary
Even though EPA recently improved its
methods for estimating fuel economy, your
vehicle’s fuel economy will almost
certainly vary from EPA’s estimate
. Fuel
economy is not a fixed number; it varies
significantly based on where you drive,
how you drive, and other factors. Thus, it
is impossible for one set of estimates to
predict fuel economy precisely for all
drivers in all environments.
For example,
the following factors can lower your
vehicle’s fuel economy:
Aggressive driving (hard acceleration
and braking)

Excessive idling, accelerating, and
braking in stop-and-go traffic


Cold weather (engines are more
efficient when warmed up)

Driving with a heavy load or with the air
conditioner running


Improperly tuned engine or underinflated
tires

• Use of remote starters
In addition, small variations in vehicle
manufacturing can cause fuel economy
variations in the same make and model,
and some vehicles don’t attain maximum
fuel economy until they are "broken in"
(around 3,000–5,000 miles).
So, please remember that the EPA ratings
are a useful tool for comparing vehicles
when car buying, but they may not
accurately predict the fuel economy you
will get.
This is also true for annual fuel
cost estimates.

EPA recently redesigned the Fuel Economy and Environment labels that must be affixed to new vehicles starting with the 2013 model
year—some manufacturers also adopted the new label for model year 2012 vehicles. The example below shows a sample label for a
gasoline vehicle. Slightly different designs are used for flexible-fuel vehicles, electric vehicles, and plug-in hybrids. For more in-depth
descriptions of label information for all vehicle types, visit www.fueleconomy.gov."
 
If you did all or most "city" driving, I suspect you'd be feeling the pain too. For many of us, this is the area where the Mazda EPA #'s fall WAY short of their marketing hype.

Quote all the fine print you want. I don't drive this car anything like they do in their commercials... I babied it for the first year.

"Zoom-Zoom", my arse. (drive2) Their numbers are off. 13.5 MPG average is not 17.

I love the CX-9, (and this is my 5th Mazda) but I would have opted for a different vehicle if I had the real fuel figures at the time.
 
'12 GT AWD and the best I can muster is 22mpg on a long trip at 65-70mph. My average is 19.2 for 10k miles... mostly highway.
 
We're on our 3rd CX-9. The 07 with the 3.5 ltr engine got the best mileage. We averaged about 18 around town and always 24 -26 mpg on our vacations going 65-70 on the highway. The 09 with the larger 3.7 ltr got around 15 in town and never quite got 21 mpg on the highway. Our latest is a 13 with about 1500 miles in it. Its first 2 tankfuls we're getting around 17 in town and last weekend on a 600 mile trip, we got about 23 mpg highway going about 70 on a flat interstate. All of our CX9s were GT with FWD. Mazda really screwed up putting the 3.7 ltr in the CX9 as there is hardly any performance difference (7 HP listed) between the 2 other than worse gas mileage with the bigger engine. One other thought. I am able to buy non-ethanol gasoline in mid-grade. I get almost 3mpg more around town and 4mpg more on the highway with this fuel and the engine runs so much smoother but it cost 10cents more/gallon than regular w/ethanol. Ethanol is bad for any vehicle, why the hell are they putting this stuff in fuel. If it makes your car run bad, then its not really being "green" is it. Well, those liberal democrats are just idiots I guess. (Political rant over)
 
Last edited:
Perhaps I've failed to uncover the real truth, but I believe ethanol is used to reduce emissions (the bad ones). I don't know why those idiot liberal democrats care so much about clean air, breathing is totally overrated if you ask me.

edit: I am referring to E10, the typical gas sold virtually everywhere. E85 is a whole other story.
 
Last edited:
I believe the reason was to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Many experts have been saying that fuel from a food stock is a ill-conceived endeavor and I believe this from my experience in this industry. The plants I'm involved with generally produce between 55-110 MMGPY of Ethanol. Most of the ethanol plants are co-ops owned by the farmers them selves. They're located out in the middle of large farming areas throughout the country. They struggle with getting enough money for their crops and when the price of gasoline goes down they don't make ethanol and shut down production. They may turn to another crop such as soybeans for that season or don't plant at all. They figure not making money on the land is better than losing money. This is nothing more than a huge political football.
 
I believe the reason was to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Many experts have been saying that fuel from a food stock is a ill-conceived endeavor and I believe this from my experience in this industry. The plants I'm involved with generally produce between 55-110 MMGPY of Ethanol. Most of the ethanol plants are co-ops owned by the farmers them selves. They're located out in the middle of large farming areas throughout the country. They struggle with getting enough money for their crops and when the price of gasoline goes down they don't make ethanol and shut down production. They may turn to another crop such as soybeans for that season or don't plant at all. They figure not making money on the land is better than losing money. This is nothing more than a huge political football.

I agree with everything you said but it is the consumer that suffers at the end of the day. There is absolutely no common sense in Washington DC, specially the last 4 years and we have 4 more to go.
 
We just bought a leftover 2012 Touring AWD and I have averaged 19.5 mpg (45/55% city/hwy). It has less than 1100 miles on it. The trip computer seems to be more pessimistic than when I calculate by hand. Better than the 16 mpg I eeked out of a 02 Ford Exploder.
 
Back