Could our TMIC be installed as a FMIC?

[drledford93]

Was thinking about this. If one had the appropriate mounts and piping, could one realistically move the TMIC to the front? Anyone ever tried this or even thought this through? IF it is possible, I wouldn't mind trying it--I really don't want to fork out a grand for a FMIC...

Thanks!

Daniel

 

[Saskatchewan17]

I guess? There is no point to that though? All you would get is more lag. The hood is designed to duct air into the TMIC.... oh boy... prepare to get flamed.

 

[djthom]

this is a joke right?
please please please tell me this is a troll...

 

[SRTie4k]

Yes. Just as you could realistically move the battery to the trunk. But there is no reason to do either.

 

[drledford93]

Ok, flame all you want. I was asking questions in all honesty. If it's a "stupid" question, then that's what it is. It was simply a question in my mind that I hadn't seen an adequate answer to. Anyone who wishes to flame a curious mind is quite the idiot in mine.

Sas--I do know that the stock IC shroud is for ducting air into it.

Daniel

PS--I never said I was going to do it, I was just curious. It was more of a thought experiment.

 

[SRTie4k]

All air-to-air intercoolers do the same thing, whether top mounted, front mounted or fender mounted. Technically you can put an intercooler anywhere you want, after all the only thing it does is exchange heat from the air charge to the fins of the intercooler. The only thing you're obviously limited by is the space required to route your tubing.

Hell you could mount the intercooler underneath the rear bumper if you wanted, whether its efficient or not.

 

[mysleeper6]

Dr, its a valid thought, I mean all you're doing is moving the core into the airflow which normally impacts the car as it moves forward (thereby eliminating the need for the ducting, btw), and out of the rising heat of the block. However, our square-shaped cores probably aren't optimized for such an application, which is why most (all?) the FMIC kits have rectangular cores.

So, sure, it's possible. You'd just have to run custom piping to get it done, which has been done by others, but not with the stock core.

BTW, you should come out the 2nd or 3rd. Check the OAC section.

 

[8.5MS3]

it is a good idea for several reasons:

the stock core is designed to work with the stock ecu parameters. so flow rates will be as close to stock as possible. yes there will be minor amounts of lag but the piping presents the least restriction

taking the tmic off the engine prevents heatsoak. its also cheaper than buying a fmic kit which in reality doesnt have much more surface area

the big plus is this.

most fmic block almost all airflow to the radiator, making heat rejection a major issue. by placing a smaller ic core in front of it, you are still allowing the radiator to do its job. i dont understand why more people dont do this

 

[SRTie4k]

it is a good idea for several reasons:

the stock core is designed to work with the stock ecu parameters. so flow rates will be as close to stock as possible. yes there will be minor amounts of lag but the piping presents the least restriction

taking the tmic off the engine prevents heatsoak. its also cheaper than buying a fmic kit which in reality doesnt have much more surface area

the big plus is this.

most fmic block almost all airflow to the radiator, making heat rejection a major issue. by placing a smaller ic core in front of it, you are still allowing the radiator to do its job. i dont understand why more people dont do this

That's probably true.

 

[SRTie4k]

Deleted.

 

[shook02]

my friend actually did this before he went zoom zoom boom. but it worked for him after a few minor modifications seemed to be working great. its those damn boost controllers u gotta be careful of. but +1 for saving money!!!

 

[drledford93]

Would the IC piping be something kin to exhaust piping (read: mandrel bends)? Obviously for stock ECU parameters, pipe diameters would need to stay the same, correct? Assuming what has been discussed above, what kind of gains would one expect to see? Anything? 5-10 hp? Just curious.

I guess the reason most say one would see increased turbo lag is due to the increase in length of piping? I would imagine it's due to any increased restriction and the increase in volume of air the turbo needs to move into the manifold over before. Is this correct? Thoughts?

If there isn't a terrible amount of work to be done, I might just attempt this. It sounds like something that is inexpensive and a possible decent gain of hp.

 

[creedns]

k04 turbo= no effin lag to speak of lol maybe on a bigger turbo yeah, but by then you'd need a bigger ic core

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I was disappointed to see the one fellow who came up with the watercooled side mount not follow through with it. If I remember correctly, he made a prototype that supposedly worked well, but didn`t want to get into producing the things.
Meanwhile, I don`t think you would gain much in overall power by relocating the core. The major improvement would be the same one that all front mounts have: if you like to drag your car, you won`t heatsoak while sitting in the lane waiting for your turn, which should mean more power under those specific conditions. On a road race style track, I doubt it would make any difference. The major reason for the gains that FMIC conversions see is the less restrictive core that comes as part of the kit.

 

[shook02]

subscribed keep me updated!!! i think ull see some serious gains !!!

 

[8.5MS3]

Would the IC piping be something kin to exhaust piping (read: mandrel bends)? Obviously for stock ECU parameters, pipe diameters would need to stay the same, correct? Assuming what has been discussed above, what kind of gains would one expect to see? Anything? 5-10 hp? Just curious.

I guess the reason most say one would see increased turbo lag is due to the increase in length of piping? I would imagine it's due to any increased restriction and the increase in volume of air the turbo needs to move into the manifold over before. Is this correct? Thoughts?

If there isn't a terrible amount of work to be done, I might just attempt this. It sounds like something that is inexpensive and a possible decent gain of hp.

yes you can use a mandrel to bend piping as required. parameters should be maintained. rule of thumb is 3* increase in BAT is 1hp. most people see 20-30 degree temp drops when moving and 0 heatsoak

The lag comes from the fact that the turbo must now fill a larger volume of space before entering the engine itself. but this turbo is so small that lag will be minimal since it spools almost instantly

 

[Darth Vader]

I considered this possibility. The only hassle is the fact the two hose barbs on the IC are facing rearward in a FMIC arrangement, making packaging the hoses and piping challenging. Every 90* degree bend in an free flow pipe cuts flow by about 50%.

 

[08cosmic3]

If you can do all that then you can buy a cheap FMIC core off e-bay, piping from CXracing and have a FMIC for less tha $300.

 

[destrux]

Considering the only performance gain would be from not having heat soak, there must be an easier way to accomplish that than doing this.

Just plopping a stock TMIC in the front bumper doesn't scream "cool fmic", it screams "I built my car with junkyard parts". Not that there's anything wrong with doing that... but I was hoping that we would at least wait till the cars are over 5 years old to start doing that kind of stuff.

looking deeper....

A 90 degree bend doesn't cut flow by 50%. It does contribute to pressure loss, but not by 50% for each bend.

The main problem I see with moving the TMIC down there is the extra bends and piping. When you install a FMIC, you gain cooling efficiency and maximum volumetric flow to make up for the pressure losses of the larger core, extra piping and bends. I'd be surprised if the extra external airflow (due to the IC being in the bumper opening) through the core is enough to make up for the extra pressure loss. Sure you'd reduce heat soak (it still happens with a FMIC, just alot less than a TMIC), but you might reduce power during highway driving, when heat soak wasn't an issue. Without actually testing this I can't prove I'm correct, but I do know it's been done before on other TMIC cars, and nobody ever raved about how well it worked.

If you're worried about causing boost cut, try using a FMIC with a core that's not substantially larger than the OEM core. A FMIC advertised for "up to 350hp" should be perfect. That usually means it's actually good for about 300hp.

 

[oaklandopen]

i think this is a perfect example of cheap ingenuity. as long as you had some skill, and found cheap piping, i think it would be a perfect alternative to an expensive aftermarket

the small square you would see through the honecomb would kinda be awkward, but you can paint it black.

i think you could put this in the same category as trashcan mudflaps and home depot front lip