Considering a MSP...vs ...

[morkys]

Hello MSP folks.

My car history is as follows:

79 Pontiac Acadian (self explanitory first car)
87 Mazda 323 DX hatchback (carbed 1.6 B6)
88 Mazda 323 LX sedan (B6F)
89 Ford Probe GT (F2T) (loved that turbo and was that car ever reliable!)
91 Oldsmobile Cutlass Cruiser (3.3 V6)


I am currently selling the cruiser because its tranny is on the blink. The car was given to me by my late uncle, a year before he passed away. It is not great on gas, but it was in mint shape and was quite useful when my Probe started to eventually fall apart.

The MSP is an interesting car. I have owned Mazda's and used to lust after the 323 GTX and the 323 GT sedan. After driving them, I realized they were very tame in stock form. My thoughts turned to the foreign 323 GTX after 1990 which had 165 - 185 HP (?) and ultimately, the nearly unobtainable left hand drive Mazda 323 GTR with 210 HP. All using the 1.8 with the "big turbo". I thought I discovered the ultimate compromise solution in the 12 valve turbo'd FT2. I put a 2.5" fully stainless custom exhaust from the downpipe back on the Probe, and it actually made fuel economy improve. I never got around to really cranking up the boost. The car started to eventually fall apart due to rust. Anyhow, I am now seriously thinking about picking up a used MSP. I am looking for some feedback, I am looking at buying either of:

MSP
Corolla XR
Matrix XR
Corolla (perhaps the S..knowing full well it is a grocery getter sans the performance of the above)
used Toyota Prius

Any thoughts? How does the MSP compare to the XR Corolla/Matrix? I understand the MSP has great handling and a LSD that is not the greatest for reliability. Any other comments? How is the performance of the MSP vs the Corolla/Matrix XR as far as stock goes? I know I can mod the MSP and turn up the boost to 12 PSI without dumping a fortune into it. I just wonder how the stock engine performance compares.

Also, when does the LSD go south on average? What is the cost to fix and is it under warranty? How long is the Mazda warranty anyhow?

Are there 2003.5 MSP's in Canada?
Is there much difference between the 2003.5 model vs the 2003?

I will read the stickies

thanx,

 

[CrashAdamP]

i have a msp and it was definatly a good investment. i have over 70,000 and its going as hard as it did when it had a 3,000. the only problem i had with it was the bushing in the rear sway bar go about every 10,000-15,000 depending on how u drive, and the clutch went (due to too many burn outs). other than that it looks great, handles amazingly, and comes with a descent system if u take the factory sub out and put your own in there. what are u really looking for speed and handleing or gass effecency of the toyota? they seem to be different types of cars that ur comparing. as for moding the msp, i havent had the chance to do much of any thing but make an intake, but with a turbo back exhaust, intake, a fmic, and some ecu work u would have a quick car. im sure there is a lot more that u could do to get it a lot faster. if u read some of the other forums of what other people did im sure ull get an idea.

 

[morkys]

Yeah, I am sure there is alot I could do. I don't think I would do a whole lot more than a CAI, CAT-back exhaust and bringing the boost up to no more than 11 to 12 PSI. I would want to be able to run stock or 11-12 PSI with a grainger valve or boost controller.

They are different cars. The Corolla XRS has 170 HP but is obviously a very peaky motor, without nearly the torque of the MSP. get 10-12 PSI out of the MSP and the difference will be obvious. I know the handling of the XRS isn't as good as the MSP, but I just wondered if anybody had compared the cars at all. I wonder if the 170 HP gave the XRS comparable acceleration vs a stock MSP.

Also, how does a stock MSP compare with the old turbo MX-6 GT or turbo Ford Probe GT in terms of acceleration?

Also, my main other concern was:

What do I look at when checking out a used MSP? LSD? Rear Clunk? What should I be most concerned with when looking at a used MSP?

 

[69RMSP]

First, you can do the 11-12 psi if you like, many people have done it. I'll suggest keeping it at 10psi. Its pretty easy to get it into the high 13's and low 14's, mind you the car wasnt intended for straight line speed. That in mind, youll just need a TBE, fmic/smic /w hardpipes, afc or ems and your in the low 14's (all under $2000).

Regarding your other question about the lsd. now if the lsd does go dont expect the dealership to warranty you 90% of the time (if you have mods). You basically just go bigger and better once something breaks. If you check Ben out protg garage you'll notice a Welded MSP LSD which help run a p5 to the mid 12's on drag radials(must be strong eh) The funny thing about the lsd that Ben sells is that its bigger and better then what Mazda offers and half the price

Also, my main other concern was:

What do I look at when checking out a used MSP? LSD? Rear Clunk? What should I be most concerned with when looking at a used MSP?

Make sure it wasnt abused. lots of ppl boost these cars like sin and then bring them back to OEM. If you can find one with the original gold clips that break off the hardpipes/intake box then I can almost assure you, you found a bone stock MSP.

btw, I would go /w the speed (first)

 

[FlyinMSP]

The car is reliable, maybe not as much as a Toyota but still pretty good quality. It's that some people really beat the crap out of this car!!!

 

[morkys]

Thank-you for the useful info. I would like to up the boost to around 10 PSI I guess, probably not much more. I would like a programable boost controller so I can run stock most of the time, and run higher only occasionally. I guess it is going to be hard to find an example that is in good shape, without too many KM's. I don't trust the KM's on the odometer anymore, unless I find a Mazda that is one owner and has been serviced and then is re-sold through the dealership. At least that way you have some chance that the KM's on the odo are real. I am not paranoid, I just think you can never tell for sure whether a car's odo has been tampered with or not. I think I would prefer to buy from a Mazda dealer, since this car is recent enough to be sold as a used car there, or from a private seller that I get to know before buying. I guess I will start researching.

 

[69RMSP]

Dual stage MBC ftw.

 

[FlyinMSP]

Thank-you for the useful info. I would like to up the boost to around 10 PSI I guess, probably not much more. I would like a programable boost controller so I can run stock most of the time, and run higher only occasionally. I guess it is going to be hard to find an example that is in good shape, without too many KM's. I don't trust the KM's on the odometer anymore, unless I find a Mazda that is one owner and has been serviced and then is re-sold through the dealership. At least that way you have some chance that the KM's on the odo are real. I am not paranoid, I just think you can never tell for sure whether a car's odo has been tampered with or not. I think I would prefer to buy from a Mazda dealer, since this car is recent enough to be sold as a used car there, or from a private seller that I get to know before buying. I guess I will start researching.

Get Unichip and call it a day

 

[morkys]

Whats unichip? Is that re-programming or re-programmed ecu with a fuel-map to suit over 10-11 PSI?

 

[FlyinMSP]

It's a pre-programmed piggy-back chip with 2 maps (stock and 10 psi or so). Do a little search and you'll find ALL the info you need

 

[69RMSP]

Do some research in the ems section efore you decide to buy any sort of ems..

 

[ND4MSP]

With the choices you've listed the msp is really a no brainer. Just make sure you've driven the mazdaspeed before you purchase either of the two toyotas. The corolla xrs looks pretty nifty and I actually see more msp's the xrs models. But you'd really be selling yourself short fun factor wise if you didn't choose the speed.

 

[morkys]

I'm looking at regular Protege's now too. I am not sure I can afford a full MSP right now. I would like get an MSP, but I'm considering the regular Protege to save money for now. Maybe an MSP will be in my future.

 

[Rotary_Powered]

If not the MSP then get either the Protege ES (stiffer suspension and brakes in the rear than the base model) or the Protege MP3 (a MSP without the turbo, so). The MP3 has the styling, the sound equipment, and the suspension of the MSP, a racing beat exhaust and a more aggressive ecu good for another 10hp. The only thing that the MP3 needs to be an MSP is a LSD and a Turbo.

 

[FlyinMSP]

A P5 is a lot of fun too...

 

[Rotary_Powered]

A P5 is a lot of fun too...

Yep, same set-up as the ES if I'm not misktaken (sus./brakes) and is one of the best looking 5-doors of all time.

 

[morkys]

I guess there is no P5 that is like the MP3?

 

[Rotary_Powered]

Well the P5 is a little tighter than the ES it has a strut bar if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Chiguy_2002]

I had owned a MSP, P5, and test driven a Matrix XRS. I can conclude that the Matrix XRS is very peaky, but yet still does not seem like it starting going even when reved up. The MSP moves out well, and goes even more when reved up. Not very peaky, and the torque is really good. It really depends on what you like, but I feel as if the MSP would be easier to deal with on a daily basis because you don't have to rev it all the way up to get anywhere. Now a P5 or a Protege ES are fun also, not turbo, but still very good. The P5 is not very peaky and moves out just fine. The handling in that is almost as good at the MSP. I would say to you to go and test drive all of them and see what you like the best.

 

[yashooa]

If not the MSP then get either the Protege ES (stiffer suspension and brakes in the rear than the base model) or the Protege MP3 (a MSP without the turbo, so). The MP3 has the styling, the sound equipment, and the suspension of the MSP, a racing beat exhaust and a more aggressive ecu good for another 10hp. The only thing that the MP3 needs to be an MSP is a LSD and a Turbo.

The MSP has bigger brakes, a different clutch and pressure plate, larger front sway bar, slightly stiffer struts, a different ECU, lower block girdle and upgraded shift forks.
Yes, I am being picky