Cold early morning start up problem

[ohioan]

07 ms3 gt

I know this was talked about before, but the search didn't bring anything up for me.

The other day I started the car up, maybe 15-20 outside, and when I let the clutch up the rpms went way down and the car stalled out.

Whenever I start the car, even when it's not that cold, the rpms go down as if something is engaging when it shouldn't. But that was the first time it actually made my baby stall.


What can it be?

 

[meicalnissyen]

07 ms3 gt

I know this was talked about before, but the search didn't bring anything up for me.

The other day I started the car up, maybe 15-20 outside, and when I let the clutch up the rpms went way down and the car stalled out.

Whenever I start the car, even when it's not that cold, the rpms go down as if something is engaging when it shouldn't. But that was the first time it actually made my baby stall.
I

What can it be?

I assume you mean its in neutral when you engage the clutch?

what is happening is the engine is running, barely, and when you engage the clutch in neutral, you spin the input shaft of the tranny, adding the load of stirring the thick ass gear oil, it stalls

try moving to SOUTH royalton ;-)

 

[ohioan]

^

Thanks. Actually moved further north this month... :/ (gotta change that)

Yeah, it's neutral. So that's still normal, nothing to worry about?

 

[Vord]

^

Thanks. Actually moved further north this month... :/ (gotta change that)

Yeah, it's neutral. So that's still normal, nothing to worry about?

I start my car in 20-25 degree F weather and never stall out, when doing what you are doing. I will say though, my RPMs drop a slight bit. only noticable if you are watching the gauge.

 

[ohioan]

Cool. Just a worrier when it comes to my baby

 

[C.T.B.B.]

Hey Ohioan, check my thread in ECU and Tuning. Very similar symptom, but I'm not ready to blame it on cold trans fluid since mine will do it regardless of if the clutch is depressed or let up. Taking a scanner home from work tonight to monitor inputs and actuators in the AM, will be posting if I see anything that looks fishy, though it's supposed to be relatively warmer, might not occur tomorrow.

 

[meicalnissyen]

Hey Ohioan, check my thread in ECU and Tuning. Very similar symptom, but I'm not ready to blame it on cold trans fluid since mine will do it regardless of if the clutch is depressed or let up. Taking a scanner home from work tonight to monitor inputs and actuators in the AM, will be posting if I see anything that looks fishy, though it's supposed to be relatively warmer, might not occur tomorrow.

You ever track it at your local joint ???

I ran my RD400 up there once, aloooong time ago. Hellava long straight

 

[C.T.B.B.]

No I haven't, but then again only got mine a week before Thanksgiving last year, track already shut down for winter. Might play some though, looking a little into SCCA stuff and such.

On topic, scanned car this am, nothing looked out of the ordinary, of course was 24 degrees outside so pretty warm for us. Started right up, acted just normal as can be. Waiting for a cold streak, though not that I really want one.

 

[Vord]

perhaps the temp. where stalling occurs is around 20 degrees F? I feel like mazda should have tested for this if it is the case. if you plan on selling a car in canada (or northern US), you should atleast plan on it being below freezing and a good bit below too.

 

[C.T.B.B.]

Vord,

I am confident that Mazda does cold weather testing before releasing vehicles for sale in the colder regions of the country. Really, the world over, the extremes would be maybe -50 somewhere cold to 120 somewhere hot, a 170 degree swing. Since the engine lives at 185 or so driving down the road, and will get there easily from a -30 degree start, a 215 degree swing, the temp range isn't that big to expect improper operation at lower temps. Unless, of course, the individual vehicle has an issue with some component that prevents operation as Mazda originally designed.

Regardless of what a lot of people seem to think, manufacturers do not want people to be unhappy with their vehicle and they expect them to operate as intended regardless of where they are sold.

 

[FORZDA 1]

The OP's issue is caused by the cold trans fluid which may need a change. In MANY cases, OEMs will specify a different setup for cars intended to be sold in the frozen north. I recommend a fluid change to a good 75w90 gear oil, preferrably synthetic. I use M1 75w90 in all late-model gearboxes. The situation will be "worse" if the car is really cold-soaked for a long time vs a car that is driven every day.

 

[C.T.B.B.]

Yes, OP's concern is likely caused by thick, cold trans fluid based on his description. However, my very similar problem occured with the OE fluid, also with Valvoline Syn fluid, and also when the clutch remains on the floor. I am very cautious about saying anyone's issue is for sure one thing or another based on the description provided by them when I have no idea of their level of technical expertise or understanding of the systems and components involved.

That said, since he can change the symptom by changing the position of the clutch pedal, cold trans fluid certainly does sound like the culprit.

Hopefully it never gets cold enough this winter for my problem to reoccur.

 

[matsuda]

07 ms3 gt

I know this was talked about before, but the search didn't bring anything up for me.

The other day I started the car up, maybe 15-20 outside, and when I let the clutch up the rpms went way down and the car stalled out.

Whenever I start the car, even when it's not that cold, the rpms go down as if something is engaging when it shouldn't. But that was the first time it actually made my baby stall.


What can it be?

I had a problem at one point with bogging when the engine was cold.
I reflashed the ECU which increased the fuel pressure (there is a TSB for this).

Has the dealer reflashed your ECU at any point?

 

[LukeP]

Totally normal, thick ass gear oil meant to protect the trans from 280 lbs of torque. Don't do anything to your car.

I live in a winter climate of up to -37 C / - 40 F and its normal for all vehicles around here to drive forward a bit when you let the clutch out in severe temperatures. The poster that said its the output shaft stirring the soupy oil is totally correct. If you jacked up your car on a warm day, you'd notice your wheels turn when you let out in neutral. When its cold, its just x100000 of that effect.

To prevent it from stalling I just ease off real slow on the clutch after a cold start.

 

[skallen]

So what would happen if you had a remote start system installed? Would the car stall everytime you try to start it??? I'm just wondering cuz I live in BC, Canada and it gets to around -20 Celcius where I live....Any thoughts would be appreciated as I was going to purchase a remote start/alarm system from Compustar or Viper..Also, just a note---I haven't had my car long enough to notice any starting issues (just got it less than 2 weeks ago)

 

[meicalnissyen]

Totally normal, thick ass gear oil meant to protect the trans from 280 lbs of torque. Don't do anything to your car.

I live in a winter climate of up to -37 C / - 40 F and its normal for all vehicles around here to drive forward a bit when you let the clutch out in severe temperatures. The poster that said its the output shaft stirring the soupy oil is totally correct. If you jacked up your car on a warm day, you'd notice your wheels turn when you let out in neutral. When its cold, its just x100000 of that effect.

To prevent it from stalling I just ease off real slow on the clutch after a cold start.

excuse me, sir, I believe you have ursurped my phrase "thick ass gear oil"

I am sure that a saskatoon can come up with a better adjectivial phrase for a cold weather phenomenom than a floridian. please refrain from plagerism on this forum

 

[skallen]

Lol

 

[C.T.B.B.]

The remote start system would allow your car to do the same thing as it would were you not there, but you don't have to go outside to make it happen. If it's going to stall, or not stall, that morning, it won't be effected by if the starter/fuel/ignition systems are actuated by you turning the key or by a box with pretty wires connected to them.

Yes, odd things can happen with remote starts, for instance if it does stall, and the remote system isn't set up or operating properly it could allow those systems to remain energized rather than shutting them down after it sees the loss of RPM signal that would happen with a stall, which could lead to a dead battery. But in general if the system is operating as designed and intended it shouldn't change anything regarding a stall on cold start.

Except...

As I was thinking about this I was going to comment on how there is additional programming and procedures that need to be followed on the manual trans vehicles. That system allows the starter to energize with the clutch pedal NOT depressed since there is not a person sitting in the car to push on the pedal, the clutch switch needs to be temporarily over-ridden. (It will not operate the starter if the car is in gear) If you go out to start your car, you'll have the pedal depressed, which would allow the transmission, and it's "thick ass gear oil" (all credits due to meicalnissyen) to be disconnected from the engine while cranking. However, with the remote start system, it would still be connected through the clutch, which could cause slower cranking speeds, even more so at very low temps. My gut feeling is that with proper oil for the conditions and a battery in good condition that can provide the required amperage at that temp the ECU would adjust timing, fuel and throttle as it saw needed to get the car started and stay running. Which brings us back to the individual vehicle and if it has some other concern that is causing the stall on a cold start. 10 MS3's or 10 Chevy Pickups or 10 Lincoln Town Cars all parked next to each other on a 32 below morning, don't be surprised if they don't all start and act the same on a cold start.

Thanks for giving me the chance to think this through thoroughly. Surprised myself. Good timing too, I was asking someone tonight about getting a ride next week so I can drop my car off for the day to get tint and remote installed. (cool)

 

[ZoomZoomPSSH]

had this happen to me the other day. freaked me the hell out. it was below freezing. hasnt happened since though. just like u i was worried as hell.

 

[ohioan]

Totally normal, thick ass gear oil meant to protect the trans from 280 lbs of torque. Don't do anything to your car.

I live in a winter climate of up to -37 C / - 40 F and its normal for all vehicles around here to drive forward a bit when you let the clutch out in severe temperatures. The poster that said its the output shaft stirring the soupy oil is totally correct. If you jacked up your car on a warm day, you'd notice your wheels turn when you let out in neutral. When its cold, its just x100000 of that effect.

To prevent it from stalling I just ease off real slow on the clutch after a cold start.

(first)

Doesn't do anything abnormal now. I'll just suck it up when it's cold.

C.T.B.B., you seem to pretty knowledgable. I thank you for all the info(thumb)