Clutch going bad symptoms?

[livelyjay]

I've never had a manual transmission car long enough to have a clutch go bad on me. My MSP is getting up there in miles (81000 now) and I autocross regularly (8+ events for the past four seasons). The car used to be modded and when I was up near 190whp, the clutch slipped under full load. I have been stock now for three years and haven't had any slipping issues. The clutch does chatter a bit when engaging, but not too bad.

So, what should I be looking for as far as symptoms so I know when I need to replace it?

 

[BOOSTR]

The chatter is most likely a worn out throwout bearing. Which is not unusal given your mileage. If it otherwise engages smoothly without any shaking when shifting, then all is good for now.

When it stops holding and fails to shift properly then its time to replace a few things.

 

[justanothermp5]

yea what he said^
when u start grinding tryin to go into 3rd or 5th its time to replace, or when it feels like there is no resistance from the clutch when u press it down...thats what i had wrong when i replaced mine

 

[livelyjay]

Ok cool. Thanks guys. The shifting is starting to get a little stiff/tight. What might that be a result of?

 

[Smitty's MSP]

yea what he said^
when u start grinding tryin to go into 3rd or 5th its time to replace, or when it feels like there is no resistance from the clutch when u press it down...thats what i had wrong when i replaced mine

I have a question... I'm sure this is a big problem, but when i drive, it sticks when shifting into 2nd.... occasionally due to eagerness and muscle memory, it'll grind a bit... not only is it embarrassing, but I cringe and a little bit of me dies inside... Do i need to replace something? (because its no longer smooth) or do i just need to man up and stop shifting crappy? (although I feel I'm a little better than that)

 

[HondaEat-R]

Where the clutch grabs (pedal travel), and slippage will determine clutch life, usually.... Hard shifting may be improved by new fluid.

 

[Smitty's MSP]

Where the clutch grabs (pedal travel), and slippage will determine clutch life, usually.... Hard shifting may be improved by new fluid.

Sooooo what do you suggest that I do?

 

[HondaEat-R]

Sooooo what do you suggest that I do?

I'm not sure I understand the problem exactly. Do you have a grinding issue going in to second gear only ? If so, it could be syncro related. If your problem is isolated to a single gear, it's unlikely it's a clutch issue. I've had clutches go, and I never got gear grinding as a symptom. This is only my experience though.

 

[BOOSTR]

If it grinds every time you go to put it in 2nd regardless of your eagerness or muscle memory, than yes you have a problem that will only be solved by replacing what is needed inside the transaxle.

 

[HondaEat-R]

Maybe try running some GM SyncroMesh fluid in there, people have had minor "grinding" type issues alleviated by using that juice. Although, it will just be a band aid. If you double clutch, does it still do it ?

 

[Smitty's MSP]

Well its not an everytime thing.... only once in awhile... I guess the best way to explain it is that when I go to put it into second, the shifter will stick right before its fully engaged, usually if I'm on a hill or taking off kinda fast, then I start to pull the clutch out (thinking that it's engaged) and it grinds because its not fully in... Now that I think about it, it seems more like user error (I've only been driving a manual for about a year now) but probably the best thing to ask is it normal for it to stick? or should it be smoother?

and no i don't think if i double clutch it does it, but i almost never double clutch, I find it useless.... I don't rev the engine up very high, so when i shift into second, its usually around the right rpms... So i just put it right into second gear.... Remember I'm VERY new to this, I'm only 17, i figured looking on here, you guys could give me the most help

 

[HondaEat-R]

Have someone else drive your car, and don't mention the "issue" to them, and see if it's re-created. I don't really double clutch either, but it can help you troubleshoot certain problems, like this. Next time it does it's grinding thing, try to double clutch into second gear, and see if it grinds still. So you've been driving stick for a year ? Has that whole year been with the MSP ? If you've been driving the MSP fine for a while, and then it just randomly started grinding, you have some sort of issue. The reason I say try GM SyncroMesh fluid, is because some times the "bearings" (which are really just sleeves between the gear center bore and input shaft) get worn and no longer allow consistent gear syncronizing. Tranny issues are tough to diagnose w/out pulling it out and looking. Keep us posted. There are some people on here who are very well versed in our tranny, and maybe they'll chime in. I've had my tranny fully apart twice, so I'm just passing on MY experience.

 

[Smitty's MSP]

Yeah, i've only driven this for stick, and not to long ago it started. Had my dad try it out, but of course it wouldnt do it for him. Hasn't done it recently, but in my experience with things, they hardly ever work out a problem by themselves... But GM SyncroMesh? I'll look into it, know anywhere cheap? or can i just go and pick it up at like, autozone? Thanks btw, having someone give me some pointers is really helpful

 

[HondaEat-R]

Wish I could offer some definitive solution for you.... GM SyncroMesh tranny fluid should be available at any large GM dealer you have local, or just hit the internet... Some times the guys at GM look at you cross-eyed when you ask for it, clueless.

 

[Smitty's MSP]

Haha, yeah I found a thread about some msp problems... its been locked though, and looks like most people have been banned from it... but it explained my problem PERFECTLY.... its under msp car problems and help, the first sticky.... both for the reverse troubles (which i neglected to mention) and for the second gear problem... basically said get the tranny fluid, like you did, or else tough noogies.... Haha but you definitely helped, better than just sittin around wondering if i've been abusing my msp or not

 

[BOOSTR]

You becoming more proficient with your stick shifting will do more than GM synchromesh. I don't use that stuff or have any notchiness when it comes to gear engagement. Reverse is a different animal as it has no synchro to make engagement smoother all of the time. Just keep practicing and you will master that gear box.

 

[HondaEat-R]

I don't have any problems either, but he said that it was shifting fine until recently. Something might be going.

 

[BOOSTR]

I'm not knocking what you advised. Changing the gear oil might very well be in order. But GM synchromesh manual transmission fluid is more expensive than most synthetic gear oils. Also I think it is the wrong grade for use below 50*. 75W90 is good for all temps.

 

[yudkib]

I have a question... I'm sure this is a big problem, but when i drive, it sticks when shifting into 2nd.... occasionally due to eagerness and muscle memory, it'll grind a bit... not only is it embarrassing, but I cringe and a little bit of me dies inside... Do i need to replace something? (because its no longer smooth) or do i just need to man up and stop shifting crappy? (although I feel I'm a little better than that)

this was happening to me about 2k miles ago, and now my clutch slips under WOT when in first.
at least i think its my clutch... i dont hear my snow tires breaking loose...
its my first stick too. im on 75k miles which seems about average for clutch life on MSPs from what ive read. also mine was grinding in third. whats your mileage?

 

[livelyjay]

If it's your first clutch then you probably got some abuse on it earlier on when you were first learning, so it will wear out faster. I bought mine with 28000 miles of gentle use, and have since abused the crap out of the car with 55000 miles of driving plus auto-x. The clutch slipped when I was pushing 195whp at WOT, but that was 3.5 years ago. Clutch has been fine since and I am at 84000 miles now.Since I posted this I installed a clutch on my other vehicle, and I am going to assume that my chatter issue is indeed from the throwout bearing.

My gear shift sticks a bit too, but not always. It gets worse in the cold weather. I grind from time to time, usually 2nd gear. I'm using Pennzoil Synchromesh which I bought from AutoZone/Advance Auto. The bottle looks like https://www.amazon.com (commissions earned)

I was using a RedLine synthetic mix (2 quarts MT90 and the rest MTL), and it worked well, but was expensive and I wanted to try something else. It's not fair to say which works better because things are wearing down now, so they won't work as well as they did at 30000 miles as at 80000 miles. I'll switch back to RedLine this summer and let everyone know my thoughts.

Smitty's MSP, the best bet right now is change the fluid and see how it works. yudkib, snow tires are not a good thing to have to judge if your clutch is slipping. Those tires break loose so easily, and if it's slick at all out they will spin. Wait until spring with some decent tires and try. Get onto a highway onramp, shift into 2nd and gun it. If you get high RPMs without the speed, then your clutch is toast.