I've read a lot of reviews saying spec is not all that good, but it's somewhat subjective.
I think as long as you order a part for your model of car, you will be fine.
Clutch Chatter
- Thread starter MTV
- Start date
I think as long as you order a part for your model of car, you will be fine.
I am inclined to agree in general with your observations but I think you miss a few important points. First, while softer engine mounts may allow a more progressive take-up between flywheel and clutch, I think our un-dampened rubber mounts allow too great an energy return to the engine. Other vehicle you have driven probably had fluid filled engine mounts (at least one or two). These mounts are designed to both dampen vibration and motion. Our rubber mounts act simply as a mechanical isolator which has the effect of dampening engine vibration.
While new rubber mounts perform well in this role, over time they can wear and allow for too much engine movement. When the movement reaches the limit of the mount it bounces and springs back in the opposite direction. This returns energy to the clutch/flywheel system and can momentarily over-load a cold clutch. This split-second slip creates areas of higher temperature which grab better then the rest of the clutch. What you have now created is a clutch that's natural inclination is to slip at certain locations (cold spots) and grab suddenly at other locations (hot spots). This jerks the engine causing the engine to bump against the engine mount stop and the cycle repeats.
The reason this may happen after prolonged highway driving is because the engine is warm and creating full power, but the clutch/flywheel are relatively cool since they have been locked and spinning at the same speed for so long. They are certainly warmer then ambient, but not within the optimal operating temperature range of the clutch friction material. When you exit and experience start and stop driving you are likely to overpower the clutch and cause the jerking engine mount problem described above.
So the Mazda engine mount problem is not just about hardness/softness of the rubber. Its the fact that Mazda selected a VERY dated and inexpensive system for mounting the engine in the vehicle. The aftermarket *would* have jumped in with better replacements if the rear mount was not so difficult to replace. Since it is they didnt
Anyway, most people looking to fix the problem get inserts or PU replacements which make NVH skyrocket, but also help performance (bucking/wheel-hop/etc) tremendously.
Now I'm getting confused, spec clutch not that good, engine mounts might need replacing (scratch)
At the end of the day, if I do need a new clutch, I'd like to end up with smoother shifting, like what's in the Mazda 3.
Maybe this is impossible, but the few times I drove my wife's Mazda 3, I couldn't believe how smooth the shifting was.
What this?
That's good to know.
I'm getting less shudder now because I rev the engine up to 1500rpm when coming out of first gear.
Someone else had mentioned this in the forum and it works good. I had drove Honda's my entire life before getting the Protege 5, so maybe the way I was shifting in one car, was not right for the other.
That's good to know.
I'm getting less shudder now because I rev the engine up to 1500rpm when coming out of first gear.
Someone else had mentioned this in the forum and it works good. I had drove Honda's my entire life before getting the Protege 5, so maybe the way I was shifting in one car, was not right for the other.
I got a quot for $850 from the Mazda dealer. You could probably get it cheaper at a independent garage.
Find a tranny garage in your area. They typically run you approximately ~600. It's not so much the parts, but the labor....
For the record, I was quoted a price of $750 from my local Mazda dealer to replace the clutch. Good to know there are superior, cheaper aftermarket parts available. Combined with a reputable independent garage and it's lower labor rates, this should be no biggie when the time comes.
Thanks for all the excellent, informative posts.
A good Honda manual will spoil you rotten, so that could be it. To be fair, the MP5 does have a decent manual all around (it could be better, or course), certainly better than most cars in it's class ... and way better than the odd operating 5 spd in my sister's '04 Mazda 6 V6.
My '03 MP5 has mild, infrequent clutch chatter. No biggie, I'll let it be for now. Reverse can be a PIA to shift into now and then. A previous poster summed it up quite well when stating that it feels like the front wheels are slipping/gaining traction/slipping/gaining traction... . It is a similar feeling to torque steer, except you feel it more through your backside and not the steering wheel.
Also, if I am in stop-n-go traffic and am idling with no throttle in first gear (pimpin' at about 5 mph) and I apply the throttle just a hair too suddenly, my MP5 bucks like a meth-crazed bull. Feather in the throttle very gently and you won't get any bucking. I do this by barely touching the gas pedal and arching the ball of my foot to apply very slight pressure to the pedal. Once the car begins accelerating, I can gradually feed more throttle in. But I'm always ready to jab the clutch at the first hint of bucking. Seems to be something most MP5s do.
Thanks for all the excellent, informative posts.
A good Honda manual will spoil you rotten, so that could be it. To be fair, the MP5 does have a decent manual all around (it could be better, or course), certainly better than most cars in it's class ... and way better than the odd operating 5 spd in my sister's '04 Mazda 6 V6.
My '03 MP5 has mild, infrequent clutch chatter. No biggie, I'll let it be for now. Reverse can be a PIA to shift into now and then. A previous poster summed it up quite well when stating that it feels like the front wheels are slipping/gaining traction/slipping/gaining traction... . It is a similar feeling to torque steer, except you feel it more through your backside and not the steering wheel.
Also, if I am in stop-n-go traffic and am idling with no throttle in first gear (pimpin' at about 5 mph) and I apply the throttle just a hair too suddenly, my MP5 bucks like a meth-crazed bull. Feather in the throttle very gently and you won't get any bucking. I do this by barely touching the gas pedal and arching the ball of my foot to apply very slight pressure to the pedal. Once the car begins accelerating, I can gradually feed more throttle in. But I'm always ready to jab the clutch at the first hint of bucking. Seems to be something most MP5s do.
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Well, here is my opinion...I had the terrible clutch chatter/wheel hop thing too, and after seeing all the opinions on the forum there seems to be two major 'guess' for the happening, warp flywheel or torn motor mount. After I thought for a long time, I decided to take the motor mount route. I had changed three of the four mounts, front, rear, and passenger side, and the only one that I haven't done is the driver side(this semester is killing me). The clutch chatter/wheel hop thing is much much less now, but still happening, maybe 15% as much as before.
Well, flywheel/clutch problems are also and always possible, but my symptoms are: only happen in low rpm, only happen when car is warm, gets worse after long highway driving, loud bangs can be heard when it's happening if you have the window down. Just my 2 cents...
Josh
Well, flywheel/clutch problems are also and always possible, but my symptoms are: only happen in low rpm, only happen when car is warm, gets worse after long highway driving, loud bangs can be heard when it's happening if you have the window down. Just my 2 cents...
Josh
You have all the symtoms.
I came off the highway on Sunday, did some shopping for 30min, then drove out of the mall and she bucked like a SOB.
Yeah, good local shops are $110/hour in NoVA. I got quote for $220 (2 hours) to install my rear mount inserts.
This is killer for me too since I spend about 40 minutes in stop-and-go traffic twice a day. I end up using a lot of clutch slip since I am aways dis-engaging/re-engaging with every stop. I'm sure this doesn help clutch wear.
In stop-and-go have you guys tried not using the throttle at all? It sounds strange, but I think it reduces the clutch wear by a lot. Just let the clutch out slowly and the car will roll. This works really well with stiffer mounts. Otherwise I would have to be slipping the clutch like crazy every time.
OK, I think a lot of folk will flame me for this, but I believe I cured my clutch chatter by:
1. installing stiffer mounts (front and rear)
2. taking off by slipping to 1.5K-2K RPM. You pretty much have to do that with stiffer mounts or you get a lot of shudder.
I think those two things helped my clutch wear like it's supposed to, and the car is very drivable to the point that I don't notice the chatter at all. I have to be more careful taking off, however, because the mounts are not as forgiving as stock ones.
I've been taking off from first giving the 1.5-2 RMP and getting much better results.
Yup, I find that helps a lot. Another one that works for me is engaging the clutch very slowly at exactly 1000 rpm, and not giving it much gas.
But like I said, I cured about 85% of it by replacing front, rear, and passenger side motor mounts. Aftermarket rear one is too stiff for me so I just do all OEM except front SU.
I have been having the driver side OEM mount for like three months but I can't find time to put it in...maybe after finals...
And I think that should help a little more.
Also, my mechanic changed my rear mount for $110. But that's b/c he estimated the hour wrong.
Josh
Also, my mechanic changed my rear mount for $110. But that's b/c he estimated the hour wrong.
(rofl2) I had that happen as well.
neuspeed_junker
Member
- :
- 02' MP5/07' M6
matt just rub olive oil all over the motor mounts as well as your shift knob, this will minimize chatter and maximize performance.
