car goes boom(pics)

[eg6motion]

I think the OP is very fortunate if the dealer replaces his engine under warranty, and more power to him if that's the case. On the other hand, if Mazda sends some sort of inspector out & decides that the mods went too far, I don't think there's much room to cry foul, either. It'd be a shame to see anyone suffer that kind of loss, though, and I don't wish this on him.

Just everyone remember... you gotta pay to play. Take shortcuts or cut corners, and they will come back to haunt you eventually. Have fun with your rides, but plan your mods carefully and remember that no engine is unbreakable if you drive it hard enough.

(mswerd)
nicely put.

Now I'm reading those things are absolutely terrible for the engine. On the highway, if I'm cruising at 50+ in 6th and i get an opportunity to open it up, I usually drop to 5th and give it hell. Should I be going 6th to 4th? Would that be better for the engine?

Im confused to. I have heard the same thing but have yet to find or see anyone provide facts on why its worse. Especially considering its common practice on a super-charged vehicle to not downshift in similar top gear passing situations... The difference obviously is the supercharger vs turbo, but the engine dynamics would be the same....boost at low RPM. Coming from Honda tuning I guess I am also still under the impression that higher RPM is still more stress than low RPM, all other factors being equal (ie, boost psi).

 

[FrequentFlyer]

I think we need a howto guide on driving this car fast. You get magazine reviews bragging about how it has so much low end torque you don't even need to downshift to exit a corner sometimes. Then you have people on forums bragging about how awesome a "6th gear pull" is even at 50MPH.

Now I'm reading those things are absolutely terrible for the engine. On the highway, if I'm cruising at 50+ in 6th and i get an opportunity to open it up, I usually drop to 5th and give it hell. Should I be going 6th to 4th? Would that be better for the engine?

I also get confused about cruising gears. If I'm in a long stretch of cop-infested 35MPH speed limit road (like I encounter every day on the way home from work), should I keep it in 5th for the low speed cruise or 6th?

Sorry I've strayed off topic, but this car seems to have a set of different rules as far as how to handle driving it, and everyone has their different methods.

I usually shift at around 3 to 3.5k when I want to save some gas... even under hard acceleration to the speed limit. I guess I need to bump that up to 4 or 4.5k for hard acceleration to make it easier on the engine.

The main thing is coming out of the overdrive gear, 6th, into a roughly 1:1 (5th) at high loads, which will reduce the stress on the motor. Depending on speed, 4th may be better, since 1st through 4th have a final drive of 3.941 vs. 3.350 for 5th and 6th. At 50-60mph, I would probably go to 4th if I were wanting to get on it hard. This is not to say you shouldn't be passing in 6th at part throttle/low boost because that should be an issue.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

(mswerd)
nicely put.



Im confused to. I have heard the same thing but have yet to find or see anyone provide facts on why its worse. Especially considering its common practice on a super-charged vehicle to not downshift in similar top gear passing situations... The difference obviously is the supercharger vs turbo, but the engine dynamics would be the same....boost at low RPM. Coming from Honda tuning I guess I am also still under the impression that higher RPM is still more stress than low RPM, all other factors being equal (ie, boost psi).

Supercharged motors are not going to overboost because their boost control is RPM dependent, so at low RPM/high loads, a SC motor is not going to get boost spike.

 

[F430TECH]

In another thread I had someone try to argue me down on how brake boosting isnt bad for the engine. I think its terrible for the engine.

Could this be the cause of some of the boom booms too?

opinions?

 

[daonly1around]

In another thread I had someone try to argue me down on how brake boosting isnt bad for the engine. I think its terrible for the engine.

Could this be the cause of some of the boom booms too?

opinions?

i think most of the people break boosting are in the Cx-7's correct?

 

[Aricjm15]

people "brake boost" while rolling on the highway so their turbo is already spooled by the 3rd honk. So not only is it hard on the motor it is hard on just about everything else. Not to mention how safe it is getting your brakes stupid just before you blast off like an idiot.

 

[FMOS Racing]

I tried to buy my car without a warranty. I hope it breaks sitting at a stoplight one day, or pulling into the garage, or whatever. I'll probably dance a jig and then put together a decent rotating assembly for it.

I'll probably end up with one that survives like my old SHO, or my Probe GT, or my TDI Jetta. Freakin' anvils that I can't break and thus I can never justify modding...

The only reason boost at low RPM is problem is if the tune doesn't compensate for it. Timing has to be reduced drastically under high boost/low rpm conditions. Boost pressure is nothing compared to cylinder pressure at peak power. Rods are stronger in compression than they are in tension and typically rod failure comes from over-revving in a properly tuned engine. You're more likely to hurt something from RPM which will cause a rod to snap than you are from cylinder pressure unless you're detonating. And even then you're more likely to punch a hole in the top of a piston than you are to "banana" a rod.

I also have to second what Captain is saying. People like to get caught up with how "well engineered" a Supra motor or Cobra motor is because you can make 1000 hp on the stock parts. The engineer in me says, "That's lousy engineering!" A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's the equivalent of using a shotgun to catch a goldfish.

 

[jbiird317]

I also have to second what Captain is saying. People like to get caught up with how "well engineered" a Supra motor or Cobra motor is because you can make 1000 hp on the stock parts. The engineer in me says, "That's lousy engineering!" A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's the equivalent of using a shotgun to catch a goldfish.

Thats too funny, I can almost imagine my engineer friend screaming that at me.

 

[NYSP33D3]

What we have here is a new car with a couple of kinks what need to be worked out. So we got a guy running a 3071r with 20 pounds of boost and no "proper" tune. mazda's covering him under warranty and he can start again. I want a high HP set up.. at least 350+hp. Im totally aware that the Speed3 is a handling and track car but it is nce to have that power to put the beats on competoter's cars liek STi's and Evo's... I think with forged rods and replacing all your engine mounts plus the fuel pump.. you have a great platform to work with. the 3071r is a BIG turbo. maybe 20 pounds was just TOO much (beer)

 

[djthom]

A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design.

The Lean Six Sigma is strong with this one!

If the customer isn't paying for it and you are still doing it...its WASTE.

before the "but I would pay for it" peeps chime in, in this situation customer = average joe car buyer.

 

[Rotus8]

The optomist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is too big".

 

[xtrememps]

I had a 400+whp Supra (MKIII/7MGTE) back in the day, and I kinda got that out of my system. Cost a lot of money, replacing several head gaskets & fully building the motor from the crank up after all was said & done. I have no delusions that all of my power mods didn't contribute to the head gasket failures & eventual need for a rebuild. (There was a definite problem with head/gasket design from Toyota, but that's another story)

You gotta pay to play. Period.

My last car was a stock 170hp (crank hp) MINI Cooper S. I spent a number of thousands modding it, eventually ran about 190whp, probably 220-230 crank. Was a lot of fun to drive. But one of the reasons I traded it in was that I knew I was pushing the engine a bit compared to what it was designed for. Reliability was going to suffer.

So I chose the MS3 partially because, even though it is heavier than the MCS, it also has an unmodded power to weight ratio similar to my modded MCS. Am I still tempted to mod the MS3? Somewhat, but I also paid good money for an extended warranty (100k/7 years), so I have motivation to leave it stock.

I absolutely believe that any engine should be overbuilt at stock specs, and therfore able to handle some modification. And I don't knock anyone for modding a car, especially if it is a car already built for power/speed. But when you get into serious mods like bigger turbos, you are rolling the dice.

From the minute you start overboosting the engine on stock internals, every second you spend in high boost/high load situations is weakening the crank, rods, bearings, etc. After enough abuse, you can throw a rod at idle. I've seen it happen, firsthand.

So the OP has now encountered a situation that should drive this lesson home. Is the MS3 engine a POS? I haven't done tons of research, but I did a good bit before I purchased mine and I feel cofortable saying that it is likely a fairly reliable powerplant.

I think the OP is very fortunate if the dealer replaces his engine under warranty, and more power to him if that's the case. On the other hand, if Mazda sends some sort of inspector out & decides that the mods went too far, I don't think there's much room to cry foul, either. It'd be a shame to see anyone suffer that kind of loss, though, and I don't wish this on him.

Just everyone remember... you gotta pay to play. Take shortcuts or cut corners, and they will come back to haunt you eventually. Have fun with your rides, but plan your mods carefully and remember that no engine is unbreakable if you drive it hard enough.

Great post. I couldn't agree more.

 

[robin2660]

I tried to buy my car without a warranty. I hope it breaks sitting at a stoplight one day, or pulling into the garage, or whatever. I'll probably dance a jig and then put together a decent rotating assembly for it.

I'll probably end up with one that survives like my old SHO, or my Probe GT, or my TDI Jetta. Freakin' anvils that I can't break and thus I can never justify modding...

The only reason boost at low RPM is problem is if the tune doesn't compensate for it. Timing has to be reduced drastically under high boost/low rpm conditions. Boost pressure is nothing compared to cylinder pressure at peak power. Rods are stronger in compression than they are in tension and typically rod failure comes from over-revving in a properly tuned engine. You're more likely to hurt something from RPM which will cause a rod to snap than you are from cylinder pressure unless you're detonating. And even then you're more likely to punch a hole in the top of a piston than you are to "banana" a rod.

I also have to second what Captain is saying. People like to get caught up with how "well engineered" a Supra motor or Cobra motor is because you can make 1000 hp on the stock parts. The engineer in me says, "That's lousy engineering!" A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's the equivalent of using a shotgun to catch a goldfish.

Without a doubt, the best post in this thread.

 

[MS3Buckeye]

So where are all of these pics you say your going to post OP? The pin and the "stock" MS3s with blown motors at the dealership.

Mods or no mods I think it is safe to say that a blown engine is rare, and you are talking like every time you go to the dealership there is another one with a blown engine.

That sounds a little exaggerated to me.

I would not be surprised if this doesn't end up getting fixed under warranty after Mazda takes a look, and I don't mean the tech at the dealership.

 

[Betelgeuse]

My guess is the op removed all mods before hitting the dealer. I just don't see Mazda covering the vehicle with those mods.

I'm heading for 45k and she's still going strong(knock on wood). Light mods though... probably has a lot to do with it.

 

[blackmica08]

So where are all of these pics you say your going to post OP? The pin and the "stock" MS3s with blown motors at the dealership.

Mods or no mods I think it is safe to say that a blown engine is rare, and you are talking like every time you go to the dealership there is another one with a blown engine.

That sounds a little exaggerated to me.

I would not be surprised if this doesn't end up getting fixed under warranty after Mazda takes a look, and I don't mean the tech at the dealership.

oops another hater, i only said there were two blown engines at the dealer, and the pin is from my car, i will post the pic later on but they are a couple guys here that know me and know the dealer i go to, they can go themselves and check for themselves.

 

[jam_asian85]

Pics:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4227595&posted=1#post4227595