best ways to stop wheel spin

[woot woot]

So did a hillclimb over the weekend and noticed that I pretty much did single spinners most of the time. I adjusted pressures and shock settings and got a good set up. Still wondering what do you autocrossers do to eliminate so much spin. I run 195/50 rs3 tires and have a cs rear bar and coil overs. A good friend said get bigger rear bar and disconnect front sway bar. But what else can I do to eliminate it.

Yes I know LSD will fix it hahaha

 

[jasyatz]

More Front Tire, More front shock, more front spring and less front camber and that might still not be enough to eliminate it. I'll let you know. So far big front bar hasnt hurt wheel spin (hasn't helped either) but HAS improved turn in. More tire is always a good thing. Hankooks have more front bite than Rivals but give up a little bit of mid corner feel.

Increased front springs without shock improvemevent made the car "wonky" mid corner, but improved turn in...no change on wheel spin but being able to get on the power earlier while straighter steering helped corner exit speeds.

Less front camber helped with front contact patch in a straight line, and thus improved forward "thrust", but without limiting roll control of contact patch on the corners (see above), not recommended as a first item to do.

Patience on throttle helps but this little car has so much Wheeeee factor in the corners, it's tough not to want to grab a whole bunch of loud pedal when you have it pointed in the right direction.

I know you stated the obvious, but a LSD is the cheapest of all the options to give the maximum amount of reduction (as the others combined have done little to illiminate and more of a mitigation)
If you're not building the car to a particular rule set for a class, that's the best $1300 installed you'll ever spend...With all the CPUS/ECM hacks we have put there, I'm surprised no one has tried to delve into our TCS/VSM unit and tried to modify the TSC to work as an E-Diff. The one in the Fiesta ST does wonders to mitigate on corner initial turn in wheel spin issues. The EDiff becomes useless whence the steering angle starts to flatten out though.
That being said, the mechanical LSD will give superior results to the best E Diff and should be considered the biggest step to answer your question on wheel spin elimination.

 

[woot woot]

Thanks for the info.

I totally understand the point in right direction and just put foot down. Did that all day and tried to ride out the power under steer hahah. Was so much fun. I was planning to run wider front when the rs3 died but was thinking of ad08 in 205/50 form. But this is all down the track

 

[jasyatz]

It's no better with a wider tire. I've run all the way up to 225/45 and no real difference. Keep sharing the info, I'll report back how the stiffer springs better shocks work out with no front bar.

 

[skullsroad]

Just wanted to chime in and say this has been bugging me as well. Sometimes it doesn't even spin, it skips. Feels like the outside tire is dragging. I'm running 205/50r15 RE11A, CS springs and Koni orange, Eibach front and rear bars, and -2 degrees of front camber with zero toe.

What are our LSD options? This is my first car without one and even though it's a daily driver...it feels so empty.

 

[woot woot]

Cusco make them in japan for about 800 dollars from memory. Pretty sure is our only option as the mazdaspeed option is the same LSD.

 

[ArshxD]

This happened to me a lot on my first timeattack event. Every other corner was one wheel spinning like there's no tomorrow. Once it starts spinning do you back off the throttle or just keep going?

 

[CorkSport]

If you get too much wheel speed on the spinning wheel and it drops on the ground hard enough, boom goes the diff. Limiting body movement helps quite a bit. In B-Spec we do not get much wheel spin unless you leave the ground (there are a few tracks this happens at if you cut corners enough) but we try to avoid it as you are not accelerating when it happens.

-Derrick

 

[woot woot]

Do you use strut braces at all Derrick?

 

[CorkSport]

Do you use strut braces at all Derrick?

I would if we were allowed in B-Spec. I have run the front brace when I was running the car in STL and you could notice the difference in the high g load corners.

Derrick

 

[jasyatz]

Derrick, That is crazy that I was running the same Bspec struts, same Bspec springs and still getting wheel spin everywhere. There's got to be something else...What tires are you running? I've tried the Dunlops and the Rivals along with the MXs and no change. I picked up a set on Kooks in trade for some tire mounting I did so I'm hopeful the claims of more forward bite are true.

The strut brace in as interesting theory..I always though they were there for more show than function though. Especially since we already have a fairly stout tie bar into the firewall..

 

[woot woot]

I am also curious about the braces. Would a rear brace eliminate some wheel lifting at all?

 

[Zach@DDMWorks]

To me the biggest thing is to have good throttle control really. I would say that maximizing cornering grip is the better thing. Carrying more speed in the corner, but having to deal with having a little wheel spin is going to be better, than less spin with lower cornering speeds. Balanced chassis comes first.

I never really get any wheel spin when I was running with 195 RE-11's and they aren't the grippiest thing out there. If you are getting a lot of wheel spin, my thoughts are you are overdriving the front end to begin with. Might be a little harsh, but I bet it is true and I have seen that from a lot of FWD guys driving.

Here is a video of an autocross when I had stock bilstein PSS and our rear bar 195 RE-11's. Definitely not my best driving, but I never got wheel spin except for the uturn start in 1st.

Here is a video of me on track with a different and stiffer suspension setup still with the same tires. I only get minimal wheelspin in turn 6 (1:00, 2:43, and 4:26) That is mainly because the exit is over a crest so the car gets light.

Both of these were with a tune in the car which really helps with low and midrange torque as well.

I can get a bunch of wheel spin if I want, but I basically have to get the car to understeer then step on it, but that's because the front end is already sliding. Thus my overdriving comment.

 

[CorkSport]

I use BFG R1s tires. I try to carry as much speed as I can in corners much like autocross with the difference is the speeds are normally higher entering and exiting. Zach has a good point on something to look at. I have had to change my driving style running B-Spec to get to the place I am at and I had more to learn which is why I love racing, you learn something everytime you head out on to the track.

The brace probably won't make a difference on wheelspin. I only really noticed a difference in corners over 70 mph like the carousel at Road America or riverside at Buttonwillow with the car the car felt with steering feedback and response to my inputs.

Derrick

 

[TURBOJ1]

Hillclimp with no LSD? (boom03)......Don't do last what you should do first, all the torque going to one wheel? No spring/shock/ tire combo with help you

 

[CorkSport]

Hillclimp with no LSD? (boom03)......Don't do last what you should do first, all the torque going to one wheel? No spring/shock/ tire combo with help you

We do not have enough power to break traction with the wheels on the ground which is why most people are not going out an buying a limited slip diff. If we had 140hp I would bet it would be a bigger seller.

-Derrick

 

[woot woot]

I have no doubt that my driving style I used on the hillclimb is why I had so much wheel spin. I did a lap where I focused more on getting the car straight a bit more before planting it and did my fastest time of the day. But still found I was wheel spinning a fair amount. The hill climb track was very up and down being based on a hill side and bottom. But will change my driving style more.

 

[damn potholes]

delete

 

[woot woot]

I will have a look into the sway bar mod. I dont really have a class i run in. Just depends what is available on the day, i get put in improved production up to 1600cc so get put with MX5 and b16 civics

 

[damn potholes]

delete