ATTN: Potential Scammer!

[niv]

Hmmmmm.

The problem is that even with everything listed so far, nothing prevents that first person from getting scammed.

1. feedback: I've used the ebay system.... for the most part all it does is warn saavy people away from potential scammers, but if you ignore it, or something unfortunate happens, well.. you still need to take feedback with a grain of salt.
2. post count: means nothing. just that the person has posted a bunch of times. doesn't make more secure.
3. tracking numbers: are good as a tool to see where their package is.. but in the case of a money order that gets cashed and no tracking # appears. you are SOL.
4. Buyers guide post: is a great idea. Only downfall with this is that people ACTUALLY HAVE TO READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. (and matters not if they don't pay attention.
So are we trying to prevent scammers or repeat scammers?)

The only really effective way to stop scamming is either a neutral party receive both items, verify the item and cash, and then forward to respective parties. That way, no product or money exchanges till both have been confirmed. Great idea, but nowhere near practical.

Good security takes time, so what can you do to prevent/minimise potential scammers?

1. Could we have some sort of picture ID verification? Say, a driver's license that has to match the name and address of the person money is being sent to (along with photo of item) I have a feeling that people who scam are less likely to do so if their address is known and a place is established where a police report can be filed. Not to mention having their face plastered over the interporn....er web. If a neutral party were to have or hold onto info then people not displaying a "verified" sig, or some sort of identification should have their posts deleted or moved to locked unviewable thread until they are verified.

2. Could we have a sort of deposit system, where a seller has to place a deposit to a neutral party. True people could work in teams i guess.... but this is still quite troublesome for someone with 1 post who just wants to make a quick buck. (again not all that practical)

 

[2K3 MSP]

why dont we just get an approved seller list and only people on that list can post in the for sale area.. to get on the list, you would have to go through a moderator..

I think this is the easiest thing to do. I mean, in order for Vendors to sell things here, they need to be verified. Why not make others that want to sell things do the same thing(without the fee of course)? If they don't want to waste their time, fine. They can take their sale somewhere else.
Things from this thread I picked up that might help out:
1)The seller must be verified through Antoine/Enry(whoever takes care of the AV's and AMM's). Give enough info that they can be tracked down, and be held liable for scamming someone.
2)Implement a time frame of when certain actions can happen.
For example:
a)The seller should ship the said product out within 1 week of receiving payment, and
b)MUST provide a tracking number. This isn't that hard to do, and it will give the seller (and buyer) a close estimate of when a product should arrive. I always add insurance as well. That way me and the buyer are both covered in the event something goes wrong.
c) No complaints should be made public(ie: "I've been scammed!!) until at least one week after the expected arrival date, to give the benefit of the doubt that it was just running late. If the other rules are being followed, everything should go smooth and not even reach this level. If you have a tracking number in your hand in the given time(the 1 week), then you have no reason to blame the seller. Take it up with the shipping company.
3)I helped get the "rate your fellow members" list get set up, but it's pretty cluttered. Implementing a rating system like Jared mentioned under their avatars would help. Mods should be the only ones able to change it's +/- rating, pending that the guidelines were follwed during the transaction.
4)Like Antoine said, have a pic of the ACTUAL item uninstalled from the car(if applicable) in the first post. I got scammed buying some stuff that was still installed, only to get it realizing that it was worn out so bad it was unsafe to even put on my car. It should be shown with all things that will be shipped included.
a) A hand written note showing the date/mazda forums is a good idea too.
b) pics showing any damage(scratches/scuffs/dings/cracks) that the buyer would want to be aware of before paying for something. No surprises when the buyer opens the box. If there is damage that wasn't noted in the pics, then either take it up with the shipping company if it was their fault, or the seller gets a negative rating for their sale.

I know thats a lot to deal with, but ultimately, if we want to feel and be safe, then measures like this are not too much to ask for from our fellow members. Far to many of us have been scammed because we gave the seller the benefit of the doubt that they are as trustworthy as we are. Like it was mentioned before. If someone is looking for a quick sale, take it to another board.
As a buyer and seller on these boards, I would rather have to go through the type of things I just listed(which I already do perosnally) then risk being taken advantage of. It really isn't too much to ask unless the mods themselves(or even Antoine/Enry) don't want to do it. Afterall, they are the ones that'll be dealing with the application process for getting sellers and approved status.

 

[jurgs01]

I'm telling you that you guys are way overdoing this. From experience if you set up a complicated system with a lot to keep up on whoever is in charge is not going to keep up on it as much as a simple system. KISS. Simple rules, simple steps, effective results. Your ideas may look good in writing, but implementing these things will be the key.

 

[niv]

how complicated is getting a photo id picture sent? not very. but it will make those wanting to scam alot more shy about doing so.

You will never stop 100% of scams, but you can try to be efficient at preventing.
a do not buy list from is a great idea, the only downfall is that it doesn't prevent that first person who got scammed from that guy in the first place. Are you suggesting then that we just sit back and swallow it hoping that we aren't that first person?

 

[2K3 MSP]

You guys are getting way too in-depth. If someone is scammed have them PM a mod. The seller has two weeks to resolve the situation. If the situation isn't resolved they are put on a master "do not buy from list."

The problem is, we have no way to verify these people!! Who's to say they don't come back on here as another new member a week down the road and scam again?

I'm telling you that you guys are way overdoing this. From experience if you set up a complicated system with a lot to keep up on whoever is in charge is not going to keep up on it as much as a simple system. KISS. Simple rules, simple steps, effective results. Your ideas may look good in writing, but implementing these things will be the key.

Quite frankly, I don't want simple. "Simple" will get people ripped off. Simple makes easy for people to fly under the radar until it's too late.
If you feel this is too much, then fine. I for one have a hard time trusting sellers now because of all the scamming that's happened on here. If I can help prevent it from happening again, I'll do whatever I can to help.

 

[Shane5425]

i vote my way, its not hard to send your name, address and phone number to the moderator.. so if you are suspected as a scammer they can get in touch with you.. and know where you live..

 

[MSPguy]

i think the feedback thing is cool. unless you are proven guilty, you shouldnt be marked as something.

 

[Antoine]

To clear up something…The “Potential Scammer” title would only be applied by myself or a trusted Admin/SuperMod…this could be combined with a “name cleared” title as mentioned by LinuxRacr…along with some sort of updated list system…

The best methods are the ones that are most seem less…although in this case it’s proving to be quite difficult to settle on an effective, efficient and seem less method to prevent scams…

I’ve read this thread through and logged some ideas I like as well as good points made by some…

What about the Buyers ripping off sellers?

All Sellers and Buyers must post their real location (city and state) under their Avatar…

For Sale Mods assigned to verifying sellers and buyers via contact info…

Recommend all transactions go through paypal…

You must have a pic of the item for sale with proof it's in your possession (pic includes sign with date and or some other form of proof...ex: Mazda Forums 1/19/05)

Transaction rating system

And there is another possibility…but it would have to be really efficient on my part…and that is to establish an escrow system...I would act as a trusted third party and regulate all for sale transactions…I only ask a small fee for my time developing, maintaining and operating such a system...

(attn) * Last chance for feedback guys...I might close this thread soon and create a voting thread based on valid ideas...

 

[Jliao]

1. Could we have some sort of picture ID verification? Say, a driver's license that has to match the name and address of the person money is being sent to (along with photo of item) I have a feeling that people who scam are less likely to do so if their address is known and a place is established where a police report can be filed. Not to mention having their face plastered over the interporn....er web. If a neutral party were to have or hold onto info then people not displaying a "verified" sig, or some sort of identification should have their posts deleted or moved to locked unviewable thread until they are verified.

I Like this idea alot. Instead, have buyer and seller both have ID verification. You can blackout the actual driving licence #, but at least show the picture, name and address.

 

[benimal]

And there is another possibilitybut it would have to be really efficient on my partand that is to establish an escrow system...I would act as a trusted third party and regulate all for sale transactionsI only ask a small fee for my time developing, maintaining and operating such a system...

(attn) * Last chance for feedback guys...I might close this thread soon and create a voting thread based on valid ideas...

How do we know we can trust you to not rip us off? Just playing... just playing!!! Sorry but I couldn't help it given the sensitive nature of the subject....lol

Ben

 

[shinzen]

Lot's o' work enry- and if something gets fouled up in the proccess, you will be taking the blame for it- Escrow is a nice idea, but with the number of transactions you'll need to have some serious tracking software written or purchased- the trick I think is to push for personal responsibility- if you are buying from someone that is new to the boards, either in posts or time, then you are taking a risk- buyers should be saavy to this by now- as a buyer/seller, I have watched who I dealt with- and the vouching would be a great idea, but how are new people suppossed to start? By having a senior member vouch for them? On what basis? Not solving questions here but trying to ensure that we look at all angles.

E

 

[Antoine]

I Like this idea alot. Instead, have buyer and seller both have ID verification. You can blackout the actual driving licence #, but at least show the picture, name and address.

Could that easily be "photochopped"?

Lot's o' work enry

Checkout my username to the left...I'm Antoine

Good point about the escrow software...I wonder how obtainable that is...I'll have to check it out...Can anyone estimate how many transactions happen in the For Sale forum on a weekly basis?

 

[shinzen]

Doh!! Looking at the wrong thread! (hand)

Checkout my username to the left...I'm Antoine

Good point about the escrow software...I wonder how obtainable that is...I'll have to check it out...Can anyone estimate how many transactions happen in the For Sale forum on a weekly basis?

 

[SkinnyJoint]

Could that easily be "photochopped"?



Checkout my username to the left...I'm Antoine

Good point about the escrow software...I wonder how obtainable that is...I'll have to check it out...Can anyone estimate how many transactions happen in the For Sale forum on a weekly basis?

i thank someone could photochop that no problem and second of all im in the military and i havent gotten my license changed i mean it is a florida but address is different im not going to go out of my way to do that or somthing. second - i think we could reference ebay as well, as in there feedback so u could check on the user. just some thought

 

[ghost]

CAPNSAVEM- Scammer, has gone to the pro-tuner boards and posted sale threads as if he was the owner of a buisness. After repededly deleting his threads and replies to posts I have sent him warnings to no avail. He is now Banned from our site and people need to watch out for him. He is one of the people that never got through when I was the for sale mod.

I have attempted to inform the members on a gb that almost went through. Guys please watch your back, this one could have been one of the bad ones.

Here is the thread...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95235&page=1&pp=15

 

[Focuz_Freek_XxX]

What if someone like me who only comes to this site to buy and or sell....but has a good reputation on another board such as focaljet.com. I only come here to browse the for sale section and there are a few parts i may want to sell and i may not want to post like 5000 times before i can sell something....i have well over 2000 posts at FJ.

J

 

[ghost]

What if someone like me who only comes to this site to buy and or sell....but has a good reputation on another board such as focaljet.com. I only come here to browse the for sale section and there are a few parts i may want to sell and i may not want to post like 5000 times before i can sell something....i have well over 2000 posts at FJ.

J

If we can crossreference you, and you are selling private parts, then I see no problem. But If I you just came here to sell, then you will have to prove you wont screw anyone over, pics of the product, links to posts on other sites, and you have to be verified on paypal.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

CAPNSAVEM- Scammer, has gone to the pro-tuner boards and posted sale threads as if he was the owner of a buisness. After repededly deleting his threads and replies to posts I have sent him warnings to no avail. He is now Banned from our site and people need to watch out for him. He is one of the people that never got through when I was the for sale mod.

I have attempted to inform the members on a gb that almost went through. Guys please watch your back, this one could have been one of the bad ones.

Here is the thread...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95235&page=1&pp=15

y do capnsavem and focus freek have the same avatar ?

 

[jurgs01]

y do capnsavem and focus freek have the same avatar ?

It's amazing how scammers can live with themselves. I would feel like s*** not earning my way through life honestly. I think it's the parents. bad parents raise bad kids.

 

[blizzard]

It's amazing how scammers can live with themselves. I would feel like s*** not earning my way through life honestly. I think it's the parents. bad parents raise bad kids.

Werd. You see it all the time these days. Even the partents don't think it's the kid's fault. My mum's a teacher, and if she sends a kid home, they'll come back later with their mum, and the mum will be like "what do you think you're doing sending my kid home... he's a saint." It's really bulls*** society has come to this... [/rant]