Air-to-Water Intercoolers

[Delivery_Guy]

Anyone know anything about air-to-water intercoolers or have any links for me. I have been fighting myself over the whole front mount IC thing and have recently begone to think about doing a air to water IC in my MSP. I guess the main reason I would do this is shorter path from turbo to IC to intake. So, I don't know if it would really be worth while.

Anyway, if any one has any input, that would be great.

 

[orangezoom]

Anyone know anything about air-to-water intercoolers os have any links for me. I have been fighting myself over the whole front mount IC thing and have recently begone to think about doing a air to water IC in my MSP. I guess the main reason I would do this is shorter path from turbo to IC to intake. So, I don't know if it would really be worth while.

Anyway, if any one has any input, that would be great.

Mine will be done in two weeks

 

[Delivery_Guy]

Mine will be done in two weeks

You have any info you can share?

 

[orangezoom]

You have any info you can share?

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/liquid.html

Try this link you will see that it much more efficient.
They are making mine right now, that is all I am waiting on.
All parts cost $800.00 that is everything.

 

[orangezoom]

You have any info you can share?

Air to Liquid intercoolers offer compactness without sacrificing performance. These units use an external water pump that circulates water through a separate heat exchanger and a separate reservoir. In street applications, air to liquid intercoolers prevent heat soak to the core during stop and go driving by circulating water through the core when the vehicle is not in motion. In race applications where ice water is utilized, air to liquid offers performance beyond air to air units.

That is a quote from that same web site

 

[Delivery_Guy]

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/liquid.html

Try this link you will see that it much more efficient.
They are making mine right now, that is all I am waiting on.
All parts cost $800.00 that is everything.

Let me know how this turns out. Are you using a radiator to cool your fluid then? What size IC Core did you go with...and more importantly, where are you mounting everything?

I need more details!!!

 

[z00mer]

I had one on my 92 Celica All Trac, when I used to race back east. It was very efficient and compact to boot. Mine was located on top of my valve cover right under the hood scoop. I got mine from Spearco. Never had any problems w/ lag of any sort.

 

[GI-]

Please keep us updated on this project!

 

[mp5jeff]

personally, i don't think its worth it on a street 14 sec car application, but do as you wish =)

 

[orangezoom]

Let me know how this turns out. Are you using a radiator to cool your fluid then? What size IC Core did you go with...and more importantly, where are you mounting everything?

I need more details!!!

I am waiting for my ic from spearco, I am mounting a fuel cell for my ice in the trunk,and my water pump, My ic will go under the bumper.
I have just finished dynoing with my emanage so when I get it done in the next couple weeks I will go right back to the dyno and see what gains we got, and of course post them.

 

[Delivery_Guy]

I am waiting for my ic from spearco, I am mounting a fuel cell for my ice in the trunk,and my water pump, My ic will go under the bumper.
I have just finished dynoing with my emanage so when I get it done in the next couple weeks I will go right back to the dyno and see what gains we got, and of course post them.

So you aren't going to run a radiator to cool the water then? Is the idea that you have enough fluid to not need a second radiator, or are you always going to have a trunk full of ice? I guess for me, the idea of having an air-water IC is nice so I can put the IC core where the stock air box is. Then I would have the shortest charge air path possible. Less pipe means better throttle response as well as less pressure drop. That is unless I'm talking out of my arse.

What size core you going with?

p.s.
Please don't think I'm knocking the fuel cell idea, just wondering about everyday driving.

 

[r1ceburner]

What about the weight incurred by carrying around the extra water, pump, heat exchanger, etc?

Are you doing this because you are going to turn up the boost or just trying to get away from doing a FMIC hack?

 

[orangezoom]

What about the weight incurred by carrying around the extra water, pump, heat exchanger, etc?

Are you doing this because you are going to turn up the boost or just trying to get away from doing a FMIC hack?

Wieght does not concern me, not that much water.
I will turn up the boost a little not much maybe 1psi I think you will see that this system is better then the FMIC I would guess that my ambient temp will be about 50-60 degrees

 

[Delivery_Guy]

Does it sound dumb to weld a couple of plates on the stock IC with some fittings and use that as the heat exchanger to cool the water? I know it wouldn't be as good as an oil cooler or radiator, but the price is right.

Any thoughts?

 

[r1ceburner]

Wieght does not concern me, not that much water.
I will turn up the boost a little not much maybe 1psi I think you will see that this system is better then the FMIC I would guess that my ambient temp will be about 50-60 degrees

Water weighs 8.8 pounds per gallon. You are going to need at least 3 gallons ore more to keep the heat soak at bay. Water is a great absorber of heat, mainly because it has a much higher specific heat than air. It takes more heat to raise a given volume of water 1 degree than it does air. The flip side of that is that it also takes longer for water to shed the heat, then the same volume of air....Hence you need more water circulated in the system to distribute the heat into.

Another option that would save some weight is to use Peltier elements to cool the volume of water in the holding tank. A Peltier element is a thermocouple device that looks like a 2" by 2" ceramic tile and has two wires coming out of it. When 12volts DC is applied to the element, one side gets hot and one side gets very cold. The difference if tempreture from the cold to the hot side can be as much as 100F. I've used Peltier elements to cool the output sections of professional audio power amps before and they work like a champ. The only problem is that the draw a good deal of power.
Using these elements, you could attach the elements to a cold plate on the side of the holding tank and then eliminate the need for heat exchange to shed the heat from the water.

The price you pay for this is current draw. It would take about 10 Peltier elements to cool a 2 gallon volume of water down by 60F. Each element draws about 60 watts of power (5 amps @ 12 volts) * 10 = 50 amps. Your alternator probably only puts out around 80 amps, and that is when the engine is spinning faster than 2000 rpm. That means you will need to put a smaller pulley on your alternator to make sure that you are not discharging your battery while sitting at stop lights.

If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to send you links about the elements themselves and all of the physics equations you'll need to make sure you get good results.

 

[Little Beavis]

How would the Peltier elements work and just cooling the air directly (imagine ones with fins on them)? Very interesting / cool suggestion.

 

[mazda2002]

Links please, I have never heard of those elements before, seems interesting.

 

[mazda2002]

could you use the stock A/C cooler as a water cooler? (just an idea, I know nothing of air to water intercoolers)

 

[Mental Addiction]

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/peltiercoolers/http://www.digit-life.com/articles/peltiercoolers/http://www.digit-life.com/articles/peltiercoolers/

http://www.1coolpc.com/peltier1.htm


http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm

 

[spacemonkey]

I didnt read the rest but I saw a RX-7 with air to water innercooler. He poored ice water in it on the dyno and has foam around his innercooler and soaks it in water...pretty cool.

I heard the only downfall is pressure drop.