Adaptive tranmission, broken-in, or defect?

[sillyxone]

My last car was a '99 Civic, I've only driven Honda or Toyota, don't really care about cars. The only driving I enjoy is drifting/sliding the Civic in winter. Didn't even know Mazda is Japanese, let alone considering a Mazda car.

Decided to upgrade to a cross-over, was about to pick the CR-V as recommended by most reviews but then the vibration issue. Next on the list is the CX-5. Test drove the two within 15 minutes of each other, the CX-5 sparked something in me, got it the same day.

Can't phrase it, but the more I drive, the CX-5 feels more natural and confident. In the snow, I can feel the car easily and started playing with some sliding. The Civic was fun to bash around but it was underpowered, and handling was not as fun/natural.

However, the CX-5 seems a little "sluggish", feel like the brake pads don't completely release. When letting go of the gas at 70mph entering an exit, my wife's '14 Accord still have some speed left at the stop light, whereas the CX-5 would slow down faster, especially at 2nd and 1st gear. I thought it's the difference between CR-V and Mazda gearbox, or the Accord is slightly heavier. But then, I can feel the same "hold-back" when accelerating. I did test locking/releasing the electronic handbrake to no help.

It suddenly became different the other day, at around 1,440 miles (3 months in). Outside temp was similar to the day before at 32F, tires were still at 34psi, same gas tank, same load, same seat position, same way of pressing on the gas pedal. But the CX-5 feels like it just got rid of a bunch of goo on its tires/gears, acceleration is a lot smoother and faster, the gas pedal is more sensitive and only needs lighter tap. There used to be a dead spot in acceleration around 35-45mph (right after entering 3rd gear, I think), and now it's smooth all the way to 70. I can easily pull far ahead of other cars at green light with just light press on gas. Still need to test out the free-rolling at exits and if mpg is any better (been getting 20-23mpg in winter).

I'm not sure if it's the adaptive transmission that has learned my style, or was it a defect that just fixed itself, or if the car has just broken-in, but it's a clear difference. It makes me want to drive the car more and more, I don't even turn on music like usual just to focus on enjoying the driving. The car is a lot more responsive, so smooth and comfortable to drive.

On top of that, the simplicity and intuitive of the console layout works well for me, especially the three climate control wheels that I can adjust without having to look at (the fancy buttons on GT trim probably would confuse me).

I've never been a fan of cars and driving, but boys, now I just want to try out other Mazda cars (didn't even know about the Miata, and now I'm reading everything about it I never thought I'd fall into Mazda's target audiences, but everything on the CX-5 feels so at home for me. Now I understand how Mazda survives with a small market share, they probably bet on loyalty of returning customers.

So far, I've updated the infotainment with a few hacks, had the Enhanced Compass app installed, compiled the Minnesota map myself. I got a Compustar remote starter, Husky mats, Mazda cargo mat, AndyGo cargo strap, Scotchgard film for headlights, fog lights, mirrors, door cups and edges, replaced all interior bulbs with LED. I'm thinking about installing the Curt 3 hitch for a bike rack in summer. My wife's Accord got the Xi3 for winter, but I'm still trying out the stock Yokohama.

Sorry for the long read. I think the CX-5 deserves even a longer praise, but I'm not good at writing/expressing myself anyway (non-native speaker, introvert).

 

[CC58]

The sluggishness when slowly pushing on the gas is a feature. The computer saves as much gas as possible by short shifting. There are two things you can do if you need get-up and go right now.

First, rapidly snap the gas pedal halfway. This tells the computer to sidestep its gas saving algorithm and CX-5 will immediately down shift and take off.

Second, if you are really in a hurry, floor gas pedal till you hear a "click". This is a button at bottom of gas pedal travel that tells the computer to take off like a bat out of hades.

I got used to the sluggishness and a great thing for mpg.
The two above options are always there when you need to get-up and go.

 

[sillyxone]

I did read about that feature/behavior, and did try out flooring it half way and until the hard-click at the end. The car did get off quicker, going all out, but it still had that "sluggish"/hold-back overall feeling, it's like in the old cars when you have the handbrake half-way engaged. It's totally different now, just a light touch on the gas will make it smoothly accelerate, not going all out (normal engine rev, not high rpm), but accelerates smoother and quicker.

 

[bmninada]

did you try using the SPORTS button?

 

[sillyxone]

Yes, tried the Sport mode briefly, but didn't like it staying in low gears for too long. I hogged the user manual on the first night, and slowly tried almost everything I read the next few days. Then spent the next week combing through most of the threads on this forum, that's how I was confident in applying the hacks to the infotainment. Thanks for checking things that I could overlook, but I've been learning from this forum like crazy so I know the CX-5 pretty well now.

 

[CX-5um]

It suddenly became different the other day, at around 1,440 miles (3 months in). Outside temp was similar to the day before at 32F, tires were still at 34psi, same gas tank, same load, same seat position, same way of pressing on the gas pedal. But the CX-5 feels like it just got rid of a bunch of goo on its tires/gears, acceleration is a lot smoother and faster, the gas pedal is more sensitive and only needs lighter tap. There used to be a dead spot in acceleration around 35-45mph (right after entering 3rd gear, I think), and now it's smooth all the way to 70. I can easily pull far ahead of other cars at green light with just light press on gas. Still need to test out the free-rolling at exits and if mpg is any better (been getting 20-23mpg in winter).

If you haven't had your 1st oil change yet just know the acceleration will become smoother afterwards.

 

[MikeM.]

When letting go of the gas at 70mph entering an exit, my wife's '14 Accord still have some speed left at the stop light, whereas the CX-5 would slow down faster, especially at 2nd and 1st gear.

Congratulations, welcome to the forum and thank-you for sharing your thoughts on the CX-5! That's quite a testament that the CX-5 is what it took to wake up your latent "car guy" enthusiasm, lol!

There are a number of possible reasons for your experience above. I suspect the car was in 5th or 4th gear while the Honda you are accustomed to might typically be in high gear with the same situation and the same driver inputs. The Skyactiv AT is one of the most amazing things about the car and is packed with sophisticated technology to improve shifting, efficiency and driving pleasure.

The shift algorithms are complex, the decision when to shift up/down takes into account a huge amount of information from many sensors including wheel speed, engine speed, altitude, road slope, steering wheel angle, forward and lateral g-forces, amount of brake applied, wheel spin, throttle position, transaxle fluid temperature, even altitude above sea level (barometric pressure) and this is far from complete. The various computer control units are always processing a constant stream of data and sending it to the TCM (Transmission Control Module) where a decision is made whether to shift up or down or stay in the same gear.

For example, if the throttle is suddenly released, the transmission will typically not shift into a higher gear immediately because it wants to avoid an uneccesary shift (you may be preparing to enter a corner or get back on the gas hard). Let's say you then touch your brakes. This will likely cause it to shift down because it knows your intention is to slow down. If the off-ramp is curved, it is even more likely to downshift because the TCM tries to insure you are ready to accelerate out of a corner. Also, if performing a downshift under heavy braking the TCM sends a signal to the PCM to momentarily "blip" the throttle in order to effect a smoother downshift. Just a couple examples of many of the thought that went into programming the Adaptive Shift function.

When you have the drive selector in "D", the TCM is in one of three modes:

Normal Shift mode: this is the mode used unless one of the other two modes is triggered (for example by using the brake, providing a steering input or descending a grade) and it performs shifts based primarily on throttle position, engine speed and vehicle speed.

Adaptive Shift mode: Certain driver and/or environmental inputs will trigger this mode. This mode takes inputs from an amazing number of sensors and runs them through an artificial intelligence engine to decide what to do. A gear may be held longer than it would have in normal mode or a shift is performed that would have not happened if something hadn't triggered Adaptive Shift mode. This mode is why I call the AT "telepathic".

High ATF temperature mode: This mode will only be triggered if the transmission oil is overheated (towing a large trailer up a long grade on a hot day, etc.). It protects the ATF and the transmission by sending a signal to the PCM to reduce maximum engine torque until the ATF has cooled to a safe level. Your transmission warning light should come on when this mode is in effect.

The transmission is cooled with engine coolant via the radiator. Amazingly, the transmission is also brought up to a more efficient operating temperature by using the early heat from the engine to warm the transmission fluid, increasing efficiency and the life of the transmission.

I suspect this lack of coasting on the freeway off-ramp was due to the AT automatically downshifting in response to a steering or brake input or a downhill off-ramp or some other condition or combination of conditions. Because the TCM doesn't use GPS with terrain data, forward looking radar or machine vision to decide gear selection, it cannot be perfect (but I am amazed at how telepathic it is). You have three options:

1) Use manual shift mode.
2) Gradually learn how your AT responds to various throttle and brake inputs and modify the way you drive so it shifts as desired. This will naturally happen on it's own but it will happen sooner if you are aware of what you and your transmission are doing.
3) Don't think about it and just let it do it's thing. In the example you cited exiting the freeway, rest assured, under engine braking your car is using exactly zero fuel. So it's not as inefficient as it may appear to be.


And, yes, your car will become more efficient as it breaks in and you naturally modify your driving habits to achieve the the desired response.

 

[Unobtanium]

My last car was a '99 Civic, I've only driven Honda or Toyota, don't really care about cars. The only driving I enjoy is drifting/sliding the Civic in winter. Didn't even know Mazda is Japanese, let alone considering a Mazda car.

Decided to upgrade to a cross-over, was about to pick the CR-V as recommended by most reviews but then the vibration issue. Next on the list is the CX-5. Test drove the two within 15 minutes of each other, the CX-5 sparked something in me, got it the same day.

Can't phrase it, but the more I drive, the CX-5 feels more natural and confident. In the snow, I can feel the car easily and started playing with some sliding. The Civic was fun to bash around but it was underpowered, and handling was not as fun/natural.
The CX-5 is pretty competent. ESPECIALLY for an SUV of its "size".

However, the CX-5 seems a little "sluggish", feel like the brake pads don't completely release. When letting go of the gas at 70mph entering an exit, my wife's '14 Accord still have some speed left at the stop light, whereas the CX-5 would slow down faster, especially at 2nd and 1st gear. I thought it's the difference between CR-V and Mazda gearbox, or the Accord is slightly heavier. But then, I can feel the same "hold-back" when accelerating. I did test locking/releasing the electronic handbrake to no help. 70 mph in 2nd gear...lol. Seriously though, I know what you mean. THe reason is that the CX-5's torque converter is not in play, and the transmission stays in gear, I believe. So you get engine braking not blunted by a torque converter unlocking, I think? Someone may call that wrong, but I believe that's the case.

It suddenly became different the other day, at around 1,440 miles (3 months in). Outside temp was similar to the day before at 32F, tires were still at 34psi, same gas tank, same load, same seat position, same way of pressing on the gas pedal. But the CX-5 feels like it just got rid of a bunch of goo on its tires/gears, acceleration is a lot smoother and faster, the gas pedal is more sensitive and only needs lighter tap. There used to be a dead spot in acceleration around 35-45mph (right after entering 3rd gear, I think), and now it's smooth all the way to 70. I can easily pull far ahead of other cars at green light with just light press on gas. Still need to test out the free-rolling at exits and if mpg is any better (been getting 20-23mpg in winter). Maybe you had a bunch of bad gas or something, but I think your vehicle is jacked up, or your imagination is, one or the other.

I'm not sure if it's the adaptive transmission that has learned my style, or was it a defect that just fixed itself, or if the car has just broken-in, but it's a clear difference. It makes me want to drive the car more and more, I don't even turn on music like usual just to focus on enjoying the driving. The car is a lot more responsive, so smooth and comfortable to drive. I've decided it's your imagination.

On top of that, the simplicity and intuitive of the console layout works well for me, especially the three climate control wheels that I can adjust without having to look at (the fancy buttons on GT trim probably would confuse me). I hate knobs and buttons. Really, I never found any of that very intuitive, but I prefer knobs to buttons. You don't "doubletap" as often.

I've never been a fan of cars and driving, but boys, now I just want to try out other Mazda cars (didn't even know about the Miata, and now I'm reading everything about it I never thought I'd fall into Mazda's target audiences, but everything on the CX-5 feels so at home for me. Now I understand how Mazda survives with a small market share, they probably bet on loyalty of returning customers.

So far, I've updated the infotainment with a few hacks, had the Enhanced Compass app installed, compiled the Minnesota map myself. I got a Compustar remote starter, Husky mats, Mazda cargo mat, AndyGo cargo strap, Scotchgard film for headlights, fog lights, mirrors, door cups and edges, replaced all interior bulbs with LED. I'm thinking about installing the Curt 3 hitch for a bike rack in summer. My wife's Accord got the Xi3 for winter, but I'm still trying out the stock Yokohama.

Sorry for the long read. I think the CX-5 deserves even a longer praise, but I'm not good at writing/expressing myself anyway (non-native speaker, introvert).

I wish they made Xi3 in my tire size, dont think they do.

 

[Unobtanium]

If you haven't had your 1st oil change yet just know the acceleration will become smoother afterwards.

All the magazine tests actually show that the CX-5 performs the same new, as it does with 30K miles or so on it. Does anyone ACTUALLY know how these motors wear in via UOA's? I know how LSX engines wear in, but no clue about these or any others.

 

[sillyxone]

Thanks, Mike, for the detailed explanations. They match up with what my limited background in embedded system and AI as a software engineer. And no worry, I'm not complaining about the coasting behavior, it's just an observation. In my case, although it slows down faster than the Accord, it does just about right to the intersection so I didn't have to use the brake. I'll continue to see if the rolling will be different after this recent change.

@Unobtainium: sorry for the misunderstanding, I'm not sure which gear I was in at 70mph when taking the exit, but the deceleration is greatest when shifting down to 2nd then 1st gear. I'd like to think it's my imagination, but I've been driving the car everyday for the last 3 months over the same routes, it doesn't take much to feel this obvious change. That's why I thought it could have been a defect (the electronic handbrake could have been applied slightly?) BTW, being an introvert, I also fall into what classified as Highly Sensitive Person, and can notice little differences easily (the downside is parties are not fun for me, I tend to withdraw after 15-20 minutes). About tires, I think only the XI2 is available for SUV (225/65R17), I might get them (or DM-V2) next winter.

I remember reading a thread about used oil analysis, is this what you're looking for?
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123841235-Used-oil-analysis

 

[craigo]

I'd bet good money you found the engine braking feature... newer automatics will do this, and since the CX-5 uses a very high compression engine, it's very noticeable.

 

[sillyxone]

Thanks, craigo, I learned something everyday from this forum! From your hint, I think I found related discussions about what I experienced coasting into the exit (not CX-5 but I assume the SkyActiv engine and trans are the same):

http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/...ion-while-coasting-noticeable-downshifts.html
http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/.../46377-notable-engine-breaking-automatic.html

 

[yrwei52]

My last car was a '99 Civic, I've only driven Honda or Toyota, don't really care about cars. The only driving I enjoy is drifting/sliding the Civic in winter. Didn't even know Mazda is Japanese, let alone considering a Mazda car.

From here, to:

So far, I've updated the infotainment with a few hacks, had the Enhanced Compass app installed, compiled the Minnesota map myself. I got a Compustar remote starter, Husky mats, Mazda cargo mat, AndyGo cargo strap, Scotchgard film for headlights, fog lights, mirrors, door cups and edges, replaced all interior bulbs with LED. I'm thinking about installing the Curt 3 hitch for a bike rack in summer. My wife's Accord got the Xi3 for winter, but I'm still trying out the stock Yokohama.

You're a very knowledge car guy!

I wish our CX-5 can be like yours, suddenly woke up and became very responsive after 1,440 miles! SkyActiv-G engine is Atkinson-capable so engine braking is not as effective as other engines although your experience is opposite.

 

[sillyxone]

From here, to:You're a very knowledge car guy!

I wish our CX-5 can be like yours, suddenly woke up and became very responsive after 1,440 miles! SkyActiv-G engine is Atkinson-capable so engine braking is not as effective as other engines although your experience is opposite.

Don't get fooled by my list of accessories for the car When I get interested in something, I have a bad habit of researching/reading all about it until I know enough, probably the itch of a tinkerer. I've only learned about cars in a short time recently.

I think it's my CX-5 that was underperforming the whole time, it's unlikely to be better than others of the same designs and manufacturing. Maybe I'll stop by the dealer to test drive another CX-5 when it's warm enough, that should clear things up a bit.

Although it's rare to see a CX-5 on the roads around here in Minnesota, I noticed two CX-5s parked daily near mine at the Burnsville Transit Station, somehow makes me feel warm inside

 

[DBLXX]

This is a really great thread.

Thank you.

 

[sillyxone]

Just reporting back that my car is definitely better after 1,440 miles, perhaps something didn't work well before that. Entering the same exit at 70mph, the car is now around 25-30mph when approaching the stop light (vs 10mph before). The jerkings at 20mph and 15mph (clutch/transmission downshifting) are still there when coasting down, but nothing to complain about.

As MikeM predicted, I gradually modified my driving habit to the car's behavior. Sport mode is quite handy getting up a ramp, easy to reach 80mph quickly (and being a jerk tailgating the car in front). I'm also more comfortable switching in and out of manual mode, with better timing for the slight delay when shifting up and down.

As for AWD, the CX-5 had no problem going up the grass hill of my yard in early fall. My lightweight FWD Civic had trouble going up that hill, even with some momentum from bottom of the hill. The CX-5 can easily/slowly crawl up the hill several times with no feel-able slipping, I definitely felt the power transferred to the rear. For winter, it's obvious when the AWD kicked in a few times driving on snow or my icy driveway.

Here's a pic of my yard for reference, the hill is just outside the fence. Please don't ask me to try in the snow, my wife won't let me hitch a ride if my car get stuck down there
https://goo.gl/photos/NguZYFabbeuuZoTT6

The Fuel Economy Monitor app (displayed when car turns off) started showing more trips at 24-26mpg, although some short trips were still around 18mpg.