3 dollar WGA insurance tip

[yudkib]

as a few people mentioned in one of my other threads, a good quote found by HondaEat-R - from garrett directly:

Internal Wastegates are built into the turbine housing and consist of a flapper valve, crank arm, rod end, and pneumatic actuator. It is important to connect this actuator only to boost pressure; i.e. it is not designed to handle vacuum and as such should not be referenced to an intake manifold.

so if youre observant you, youve already realized that the MSP is configured from the factory just the way garrett said NOT to do it.

a solution i think im gonna try, for all of three dollars:
1.) go to petco
2.) buy Lee's Check Valve for $3 (the other one available is a piece of trash)
3.) cut WGA line, install check valve with flow arrow going toward WGA
4.) apply hair spray to barbs, zip tie lines
5.) sleep better at night.

i have that check valve in use for some of the CF vacuum bagging i do and it holds 22inHg no problem, 100% leak free... it should work in this application as well. the barbs are a shade small for standard 3mm line but will do the trick if youre smart about it.
note that if you have a boost controller, it should operate as an effective check valve. if its a bleeder type im not 100% sure, but the ball-and-spring or solenoid based ones definitely would not require this quick hack.

just a pointer for those of us who have incorrectly configured WGA's.

 

[littlemimus]

good job on another **** up mazda!!(nuts)

 

[Ricktalife]

So I can't remember how it is from the factory, but right now I have my WGA connected to a vacuum line that goes to a T for the BPV to cut in, and then to my vacuum block, which feeds from the Intake Manifold. You're telling me I should take this line off of the WGA and block it off with this check valve?

edit: referring to blocking off the WGA, not the other stuff.

 

[yudkib]

good job on another **** up mazda!!

its very, very far from the worst crime they committed on these cars. at the end of the day, an ATP costs what 50 bucks? id much rather foot that bill than buy a new diff, EGR, engine, BPV, etc, etc, etc.

So I can't remember how it is from the factory, but right now I have my WGA connected to a vacuum line that goes to a T for the BPV to cut in, and then to my vacuum block, which feeds from the Intake Manifold. You're telling me I should take this line off of the WGA and block it off with this check valve?

edit: referring to blocking off the WGA, not the other stuff.

so IM -> vac block -> tee -> WGA/BPV? first of all why arent those on separate ports off the block? haha
you would run the check valve in-line between the T and the WGA. also i wouldnt call it "blocking it off" since its just in-line

 

[Beat]

Let us know if it works for you. How it is affecting your boost spike / holding the boost and such. Ty

 

[littlemimus]

its very, very far from the worst crime they committed on these cars. at the end of the day, an ATP costs what 50 bucks? id much rather foot that bill than buy a new diff, EGR, engine, BPV, etc, etc, etc.

yeah i know but its just another thing that got effed up cause they are all on coke or something

 

[Ricktalife]

so IM -> vac block -> tee -> WGA/BPV? first of all why arent those on separate ports off the block? haha
you would run the check valve in-line between the T and the WGA. also i wouldnt call it "blocking it off" since its just in-line

Ok I didn't understand it was in-line so that makes sense. Yea that is my setup, not sure why lol I had a tech install new vacuum lines and maybe he didn't want to run out. I bought an ATP that still has yet to be installed. Would this be something good to have even with an aftermarket WGA?

 

[yudkib]

yeah i know but its just another thing that got effed up cause they are all on coke or something

it was a business choice - to pay a company to develop a valve or to buy one thats flow rated from an industrial supplier would have been an easy 5-7 bucks a car. if a WGA fails inside warranty it probably costs them about 100-150 tops for parts and labor. so if less than one in 15-20 fails inside the warranty it made sense for them. if you factor the time-value of money its probably closer to 1 in 10-13. strictly business. the LSD was a bust though haha

Ok I didn't understand it was in-line so that makes sense. Yea that is my setup, not sure why lol I had a tech install new vacuum lines and maybe he didn't want to run out. I bought an ATP that still has yet to be installed. Would this be something good to have even with an aftermarket WGA?

if its set up like the stock WG or like you have it now (no boost control) it cant hurt... no matter how you slice it, youre still using it in ways it wasnt designed. ive wondered if it would actually help the ATP spike less... i dont think so since it spikes even with people who dial it in pretty well, but theres a lot of factors in determining exactly whats to blame in that issue.

 

[Ricktalife]

I might give this idea a shot. Thanks for the tip.

 

[StealthWyvern]

I dont see how this check valve is any different then a regular check valve on most cars.... If its exactly what im thinking it is have fun with no boost and over spoolin the turbo due to the wastegate being stuck open.... Or if its installed the other way around you will soon be in the zoom zoom boom club before you know it.

 

[yudkib]

yeah i should probably say people who dont know how a check valve works shouldnt install it.

if the WG does end up getting stuck open, which is possible, (since i havent tested it yet) the easy fix would be to drill a very very tiny (1/16 or so) hole after the valve. it would technically be a controlled leak, but no worse than a MBC, and if its after the valve then it wont impact spool-up time.

 

[Ricktalife]

Huh. Maybe I'll just get wait for the ATP and if that doesn't work well enough I can get an EBC.

 

[yudkib]

or one of my soon-to-be low boost/spikeless MBC's this wont change your boost, just keep you from vacuuming and fatiguing the daylights out of your WGA

 

[Ricktalife]

Well well. It seems you just have all the answers don't you? Maybe you should go work with Mazda on their next Mazdaspeed production.

 

[joem.]

i so confused... i have a manual boost controller.. so what does this do just for a insurance check to make sure the internal wastgate doesnt stay open?

 

[yudkib]

i so confused... i have a manual boost controller.. so what does this do just for a insurance check to make sure the internal wastgate doesnt stay open?

no - from the factory, the WGA is piped directly to the intake manifold, which means it sees boost and vacuum, as indicated by a boost gauge. and as noted by garrett, this is bad. the WGA is a flexible sheet, pushing it in one direction isnt that bad, but pushing and pulling it wears the material out MUCH faster and ultimately leads to failure.

a check valve will stay shut under vacuum, meaning the WGA will not be "pulled" by the vacuum, but the valve opens under boost and still pushes the WGA for proper operation.
i dont know if the MBC you have provides this function... some definitely do, some im not positive about. who makes it?

I dont see how this check valve is any different then a regular check valve on most cars.... If its exactly what im thinking it is have fun with no boost and over spoolin the turbo due to the wastegate being stuck open.... Or if its installed the other way around you will soon be in the zoom zoom boom club before you know it.

just to elaborate on the question a little... i picked this one mainly because i have very good experiences with it, and not so good experiences with others. ive also read numerous things that said this was one of the best ones available at retail... so i assume that would include automotive ones. its easy to install, and from what i remember a lot of automotive check valves arent the same mechanism as this one. so really a lot of reasons, but if it functions identically any automotive check valve would do the same thing. but owning this one, i do know for sure you can drill it out if it needs a breather.

 

[destineal]

mine fell apart this morning when i attached it to the hose.

 

[yudkib]

damn - how did it break? did it just fall apart (like the case cracked)? was it before the car even turned on?

 

[43975]

Now what if I have Boost gauge, WGA and BOV all connected via a Vaccum block on the Brake booster line? There is a check valve in the brake booster line? Or am I ok since I have a forge WGA?

 

[yudkib]

i think the forge and the ATP fail super-fast because they are under vacuum. since mazda didnt just put an off-the-shelf WGA on the MSP, i think it was somewhat designed for vacuum, but there is no way the forge or ATP was.

the check valve is after the vacuum block so the brake boost doesnt experience positive pressure. its not doing anything as far as your wastegate, BPV, or anything else, which gets both boost and vacuum. you would put it on the hose going to the WGA coming out of the block.