2006 Mazda 3s 2.3

[bparkzd00d]

i have been told from some people including one person at the local mazda dealer that the engine in my 2.3s is the exact same engine as the speed3 sans the turbo kit. i do want to either get a turbo kit for my engine or buy an engine from a speed but i cant find a speed engine and no one seems to know for sure if i can just throw on the turbo kit without blowing my engine up at a tolerable amount of boost. (scratch)

any and all insight to this would be much appreciated. thank ya kindly.

 

[xMazdax]

I believe the speed 3's motor is a 2.3 with a turbo. and Obiviously some diff parts, but im sure you can put a turbo on a NA 2.3.

 

[cclngthr]

The only difference between the N/A vs Turbo is the compression ratio is lower, injectors and the oil journals in the engine are larger in the turbo engine. The N/A engine requires 5w20 oil, which will be easily burnt with the turbo, but is required due to the smal oil journals in the N/A 2.3.

I am rebuilding a N/A 2.3 MZ3 engine from a 2004 Mazda 3 hatchback because the previous owner put 10w30 oil in it. All of the main bearings were spun as well as the #2 rod bearing spun enough to destroy the rod and did major damage to the crank. I was able to add metal to the crank and CNC machine the crank back to spec (the advantages of having full access to the right machining equipment).

The oil journals in the N/A motor are the size of a #2 pencil lead. On the turbo motor, the journals are twice the size. If you go turbo, you will need to redo the oil journals to enlarge them, plus I recommend a high volume oil pump.

You can get a MS3 ECU and a turbo and manifold and also replace the injectors after you redo the lower end.

 

[littleb01]

MS3 is also Direct injection, MZ3 is not. The intake manifold is different... The motor is similar but there are a decent amount of differences. Also you don't need a MS3 ecu... That's what engine management is there for. I don't know but a MS3 ecu may not work correctly on a MZ3. You just need a EMS that will have direct control over your injectors. You can buy a turbo kit, I suggest you do forged internals as well. I did not at first and before I even got to drive it the motor blew and then I had to replace that and went with forged pistons and rods. Right now I'm only putting out 7.6lbs because the XFC fuel controller couldn't keep up with the power of more boost. The XFC doesn't have direct control over injectors. It uses MAF and O2 to tell the ecu how much fuel to use. Right now im only at 200whp. The engine can handle more if I had better engine management. Our transmissions are not much good over 250whp though unless you build the trans also.

 

[cclngthr]

MS3 is also Direct injection, MZ3 is not. The intake manifold is different... The motor is similar but there are a decent amount of differences. Also you don't need a MS3 ecu... That's what engine management is there for. I don't know but a MS3 ecu may not work correctly on a MZ3. You just need a EMS that will have direct control over your injectors. You can buy a turbo kit, I suggest you do forged internals as well. I did not at first and before I even got to drive it the motor blew and then I had to replace that and went with forged pistons and rods. Right now I'm only putting out 7.6lbs because the XFC fuel controller couldn't keep up with the power of more boost. The XFC doesn't have direct control over injectors. It uses MAF and O2 to tell the ecu how much fuel to use. Right now im only at 200whp. The engine can handle more if I had better engine management. Our transmissions are not much good over 250whp though unless you build the trans also.

The manual trans (5 speed) is capable of handling a lot more power than 250 whp, but the clutch isn't. The speed3 ECU is an easier way to control the A/F mixture without using any other piggyback, which I have found the stock ecu will try to fight the piggyback. The stock ecu will try to revert the changes made by the piggyback back to stock level, which is why you blew the motor. The injectors on the Speed 3 are also able to put out a lot more fuel, because they are designed to put out more fuel volume (not being DI). Being direct injection also makes it easier to have that higher volume of fuel at the cylindars. If you wanted more boost, you would have to go with true forged internals and lower CR.

 

[littleb01]

Nope, that's not why the motor blew... It was during tuning, That's another story having to do with the guy that did the initial work for me. After that I put in Eagle Rods, Supertech 9:1 pistons (lower CR that is). Yes the stock ecu does step in but it has to do with the long term fuel trim, From what I understood from my shop, the XFC more or less controls the short term trim. I didn't know that the MS3 ecu would work with MZ3 besides the XFC came in the kit when I bought it from F2. And I have heard that over 250 it starts to rip 3rd gear out. That is coming from a reputable source also. Anyway, my work after the motor blew came from a very reputable shop here that works on high hp rx7, rx8, 350z and other cars the like. The XFC is not good for much hp as it could not keep up with the fuel. I have larger injectors, the XFC just wasn't the right choice for much hp. What is needed for me to go with higher boost and higher hp would be something more along the line of AEM EMS or Greddy E-manage. But I now have so much money into my car from excess work that I don't think I will mess with it anymore. I am not sure that it is worth it. Well, I'm done now, don't think I will comment on this any more either.

 

[cclngthr]

Nope, that's not why the motor blew... It was during tuning, That's another story having to do with the guy that did the initial work for me. After that I put in Eagle Rods, Supertech 9:1 pistons (lower CR that is). Yes the stock ecu does step in but it has to do with the long term fuel trim, From what I understood from my shop, the XFC more or less controls the short term trim. I didn't know that the MS3 ecu would work with MZ3 besides the XFC came in the kit when I bought it from F2. And I have heard that over 250 it starts to rip 3rd gear out. That is coming from a reputable source also. Anyway, my work after the motor blew came from a very reputable shop here that works on high hp rx7, rx8, 350z and other cars the like. The XFC is not good for much hp as it could not keep up with the fuel. I have larger injectors, the XFC just wasn't the right choice for much hp. What is needed for me to go with higher boost and higher hp would be something more along the line of AEM EMS or Greddy E-manage. But I now have so much money into my car from excess work that I don't think I will mess with it anymore. I am not sure that it is worth it. Well, I'm done now, don't think I will comment on this any more either.

You had a lack of fuel during tuning; which when a boosted motor is initially run too lean that is exactly what happens especially at higher rpm and load. I do this all the time at my shop, but I also have the tuning equipment, which includes a dyno, engine analyser, scan tools and a lot of other specialty equipment to test engines. When I built my 68 Chev truck, which has a $16,800 572 big block, modified to handle the roots supercharger, including port injection, I had it at a rich fuel mixture and low rev limiter until I could refine the tune on the dyno. The ecu is a GM with the Allisson 6 speed automatic, which is designed for a lot of power, I had to retune the GM computer to run it with the automatic. No aftermarket piggyback was used because the trans contyol expects the ecu to do certain things without conflicts.

The MS3 ecu plugs directly into the MZ3 harness, and works fine. It had different timing advance and fuel trims.

 

[littleb01]

Yea I know that's what was happening, see The guy that did my install also tried to tune... Which he should have said "hey take it to the shop for a dyno tune" It was coming along but it took its toll on the engine and snapped a rod and went through the block. So I got the pistons and rods and then had a shop (pfsupercars) do the work for me. They are very good. I'm good now just the XFC sucks, lol, so he limited my horse power so the XFC could keep up. If I want more I need to go with something else, but I don't see that anywhere in my near future. Another thing, with the differences between the MS3 and the MZ3... That ecu really does the job? What about the fact that its a different Compression Ratio? Isn't the ecu set up for that compression, and either stock MZ3 compression which is higher or like me with the 9:1 compression, I would think it would conflict with the tune that the MS3 is set up for.

Anyway, moral of the story is, at least do forged internals to help protect the engine. If the MS3 ecu works then great, I just didn't think that it would and my kit came with the fuel controller anyway so I'm using it for now. If not using the MS3 ecu then a more involved EMS like AEM's or Greddy or Haltech would be better then just XFC because it doesn't directly control your injectors unlike the others. A lesson I learned, Do it right the first time or don't do it at all!!

 

[cclngthr]

Yea I know that's what was happening, see The guy that did my install also tried to tune... Which he should have said "hey take it to the shop for a dyno tune" It was coming along but it took its toll on the engine and snapped a rod and went through the block. So I got the pistons and rods and then had a shop (pfsupercars) do the work for me. They are very good. I'm good now just the XFC sucks, lol, so he limited my horse power so the XFC could keep up. If I want more I need to go with something else, but I don't see that anywhere in my near future. Another thing, with the differences between the MS3 and the MZ3... That ecu really does the job? What about the fact that its a different Compression Ratio? Isn't the ecu set up for that compression, and either stock MZ3 compression which is higher or like me with the 9:1 compression, I would think it would conflict with the tune that the MS3 is set up for.

Anyway, moral of the story is, at least do forged internals to help protect the engine. If the MS3 ecu works then great, I just didn't think that it would and my kit came with the fuel controller anyway so I'm using it for now. If not using the MS3 ecu then a more involved EMS like AEM's or Greddy or Haltech would be better then just XFC because it doesn't directly control your injectors unlike the others. A lesson I learned, Do it right the first time or don't do it at all!!

The MZ3 CR is 9.7 and the MS3 CR is 9.3, not much difference to matter much. With a higher compression, you would see more detonation, but with the proper fuel volume, detonation is not as apparent. The MS3 ecu would compensate for the small amount of the difference. If it was more than 1.0 CR difference, it would take more timing adjustment.

A friend of mine has an 05 Hyundai Elantra with a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder engine with a stock 10:1 CR and he put a 255 LPH Walbro fuel pump and Mustang fuel injectors and had a turbo kit built for the motor and he is running it fine just on the factory n/a ecu. He modified the fuel system without doing anything to the motor.

What I would like to do is get a MS3 head and intake manifold, and the MS3 fuel pump and regulator and install it on my N/A MZ3. Direct injection would increase power and be more fuel efficient.